29 ms·

They're still looking for a sucker. That's what they expect to pay someone coming into that role. They likely had the last sucker at that salary and hope to fin

by chank 3y ago

They're still looking for a sucker. That's what they expect to pay someone coming into that role. They likely had the last sucker at that salary and hope to find another. It's possible you can expect to take a hit when going "social impact" roles, but who's willing to take $100k reduction just for that. Either that or they're inflating the title a lot and really just want a Sr. Dev. who again would be taking a salary hit at todays rates.

doctor_eval 3y ago
So is $250K the salary for every location in the US or just for SV/NYC? Honest question; my lair is a remote beach paradise.
- seneca 3y ago
  $250k is about right for a Principal "DevOps Enginner" for a company in a major city. Principal engineers are well paid, and SREs (what people often mean when they say DevOps eng) are often the highest paid engineers at a company. You wouldn't get this in small or midsized towns in the US.
  - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
    > SREs (what people often mean when they say DevOps eng) are often the highest paid engineers at a company Nope. It is usually the higher stack eng.
    - seneca 3y ago
      What do you mean by "higher stack" here? SREs being highest paid is true for my anecdotal knowledge and what I've seen in salary surveys. I'd be interested in updating my understanding though.
      - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
        My bad, I think you are right. I did some more digging and couldn't find stats supporting this either way. I was thinking more ML eng but it doesn't seem that widespread.
- iepathos 3y ago
  That's just in SV/NYC. Average is a bit lower, range is like 180k-300k in the US. Glassdoor has stats you can find here https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/principal-devops-engineer-salary-SRCH_KO0,25.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/principal-devops-engineer...
Spooky23 3y ago
I just hired a couple of good guys around this salary. Especially if you hire remote, there’s no need to pay these types of roles $300k. Some dude living in Buffalo will have a better standard of living at $150k than a $300k guy in SFO. And frankly, for the lower level roles where remote is fine, it’s hard to ignore Eastern Europe. Sorry guys, but these premiums were all about Google, Microsoft, AWS, etc trying to keep talent away from competitors. If you were making $500k to be a sysadmin, that’s probably a gravy train that will slow down.
- astrange 3y ago
  > Some dude living in Buffalo will have a better standard of living at $150k than a $300k guy in SFO. It doesn't really matter what your standard of living is when you look at how much faster you can fill your retirement fund.
  - oofta-boofta 3y ago
    [dead]
- ryandrake 3y ago
  These companies are all making multiples[1] of that in revenue per employee. An "average" employee making $200K/yr at Apple is not even capturing 10% of the "average" value he's bringing in. If anything, tech should be paying much more than it already is. The shareholders are getting away with murder. 1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/217489/revenue-per-employee-of-selected-tech-companies/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/217489/revenue-per-emplo...
  - Silhouette 3y ago
    I'm afraid that's not how employment markets work. As an employee you are in a competitive environment and worth what at least one employer is willing to pay you. How that relates to the value you generate for the employer is largely irrelevant in an employer's market and that is what we have today. If you want to price based on value then you might consider a different path that leads to more of a B2B relationship such as entrepreneurialism, contracting or freelancing. The traditional alternative would be something like unionisation and collective bargaining but I don't see that happening effectively for software developers any time soon.
truculent 3y ago
Is a person who is looking for more than just money from their job necessarily a sucker?
- chank 3y ago
  Comp packages inclusive of benefits, but I also think that there is a point of self respect that just because you're doing something you love you shouldn't get taken for a ride at the end of the day. That's why the entire game development industry has such low pay compared to business developer counterparts. Those developers have been taken advantage of excessively. IMO, jobs where you have some other incentives (moral or otherwise) should still pay market and expect some competition for thier roles because they're highly desirable not just because of some idealistic stance. At the end of the day, ideals aren't going to pay the bills.

by chank 3y ago

doctor_eval 3y ago

So is $250K the salary for every location in the US or just for SV/NYC? Honest question; my lair is a remote beach paradise.

seneca 3y ago
$250k is about right for a Principal "DevOps Enginner" for a company in a major city. Principal engineers are well paid, and SREs (what people often mean when they say DevOps eng) are often the highest paid engineers at a company. You wouldn't get this in small or midsized towns in the US.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  > SREs (what people often mean when they say DevOps eng) are often the highest paid engineers at a company Nope. It is usually the higher stack eng.
  - seneca 3y ago
    What do you mean by "higher stack" here? SREs being highest paid is true for my anecdotal knowledge and what I've seen in salary surveys. I'd be interested in updating my understanding though.
    - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
      My bad, I think you are right. I did some more digging and couldn't find stats supporting this either way. I was thinking more ML eng but it doesn't seem that widespread.
iepathos 3y ago
That's just in SV/NYC. Average is a bit lower, range is like 180k-300k in the US. Glassdoor has stats you can find here https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/principal-devops-engineer-salary-SRCH_KO0,25.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/principal-devops-engineer...

Spooky23 3y ago

I just hired a couple of good guys around this salary. Especially if you hire remote, there’s no need to pay these types of roles $300k. Some dude living in Buffalo will have a better standard of living at $150k than a $300k guy in SFO. And frankly, for the lower level roles where remote is fine, it’s hard to ignore Eastern Europe. Sorry guys, but these premiums were all about Google, Microsoft, AWS, etc trying to keep talent away from competitors. If you were making $500k to be a sysadmin, that’s probably a gravy train that will slow down.

astrange 3y ago
> Some dude living in Buffalo will have a better standard of living at $150k than a $300k guy in SFO. It doesn't really matter what your standard of living is when you look at how much faster you can fill your retirement fund.
- oofta-boofta 3y ago
  [dead]
ryandrake 3y ago
These companies are all making multiples[1] of that in revenue per employee. An "average" employee making $200K/yr at Apple is not even capturing 10% of the "average" value he's bringing in. If anything, tech should be paying much more than it already is. The shareholders are getting away with murder. 1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/217489/revenue-per-employee-of-selected-tech-companies/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/217489/revenue-per-emplo...
- Silhouette 3y ago
  I'm afraid that's not how employment markets work. As an employee you are in a competitive environment and worth what at least one employer is willing to pay you. How that relates to the value you generate for the employer is largely irrelevant in an employer's market and that is what we have today. If you want to price based on value then you might consider a different path that leads to more of a B2B relationship such as entrepreneurialism, contracting or freelancing. The traditional alternative would be something like unionisation and collective bargaining but I don't see that happening effectively for software developers any time soon.

truculent 3y ago

Is a person who is looking for more than just money from their job necessarily a sucker?

chank 3y ago
Comp packages inclusive of benefits, but I also think that there is a point of self respect that just because you're doing something you love you shouldn't get taken for a ride at the end of the day. That's why the entire game development industry has such low pay compared to business developer counterparts. Those developers have been taken advantage of excessively. IMO, jobs where you have some other incentives (moral or otherwise) should still pay market and expect some competition for thier roles because they're highly desirable not just because of some idealistic stance. At the end of the day, ideals aren't going to pay the bills.