6 ms·

Dude, I don't even live in the US but I've worked with PR before (huge firm) and as soon as I started reading this my bullshit radar went off, this is clearly r

Dude, I don't even live in the US but I've worked with PR before (huge firm) and as soon as I started reading this my bullshit radar went off, this is clearly reads like a PR fake story, and when that happens it's always 1) to sell you a product or 2) to plant a fake idea on your head. Since there's no clearly a product, yeah, this article is clearly a psy0ps. Side note: when they report "...72% expects easier jobs..." they are talking about their expectations, while hiding employment data (which probably says otherwise). That's another cheap old "dark pattern" in lying PR article. They call it "soft data" (instead of real data, so you can lie easily. It's like Marlboro would tell you "...72% of smokers expects health improvements due to smoking...

whimsicalism 3y ago
[flagged]
crummy 3y ago
What is the goal of this PR piece then?
- mrcode007 3y ago
  A few years ago a similar move was making rounds in the US to promote increasing of the visa quotas or reforming the system due to the “shortage” Edit: 2013 https://www.brookings.edu/articles/h-1b-visas-and-the-stem-shortage/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/h-1b-visas-and-the-stem-s... 2021 https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/h-1b-visa-reform-is-critical-to-addressing-us-talent-shortage-analysis-finds/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/h-1b-visa-reform-is-... First you plant studies in the news, then you can quote those studies when lobbying lawmakers Edit2: The issue dates back to 1959. There’s always been a “shortage” Kenneth Arrow: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1883726 https://www.jstor.org/stable/1883726
  - coliveira 3y ago
    And strangely enough, the goal of these articles is never to increase the number of Americans trained for these plentiful jobs. The idea is always to bring more workers from other countries, so the industry will have an easier time to pay lower salaries.
- nostrademons 3y ago
  Increase the pool of software engineers, specifically in New Zealand, so companies can hire more easily and don't need to increase salaries. Here's a tip for reading PR pieces: if a company is mentioned in the article and one of their executives is quoted, they are almost always the ones who paid for (and probably wrote) the article. Here, it quotes "NZTech CEO Graeme Muller". If you click through the one link in the article, that one also quotes NZTech CEO Graeme Muller, and all the source data is from NZTech. Reading through it, you see that NZTech is an industry trade association of New Zealand's tech companies. They have a pretty obvious vested interest in increasing the pool of tech workers in New Zealand.
  - hluska 3y ago
    Isn’t it more likely that the CEO of an industry wide association would be the best person to comment on trends impacting the whole industry? Edit - I’m a recovering publisher so have a lot of experience being the target of PR and choosing what kinds of articles can be printed.
    - nostrademons 3y ago
      Not really. When assessing the credibility of a source, you have two main questions: do they have the information you need, and do they have an incentive to lie? Industry-wide associations usually have significantly worse information than people who are actually performing the jobs at companies in the organization, and they also have a responsibility to their member orgs to get the best outcomes for them (i.e. represent information in a way that achieves member organization goals). If I wanted accurate information on the state of hiring in an industry, I would look for someone who had recently performed sourcing/interviewing/recruiting for one of the big companies in the industry but had also recently retired, left for another field, or become a stay-at-home mom/dad. They have the firsthand information as part of their job, but they also have no dog in the fight and hence no reason to distort that information.
      - hluska 3y ago
        You have never published, have you? Your last paragraph is all about finding impossible sources whose credibility won’t be apparent to average readers.
bandyaboot 3y ago
Wrong things, often ridiculously wrong things get written all the time. It doesn’t mean it’s the result of a “psyop”. Here’s a roughly accurate flowchart for determining if you’re currently being subject to something that could non-ironically be termed a psyop: “is this a psyop?”—>”no”.
- tasogare 3y ago
  [dead]
- Terr_ 3y ago
  It sounds like you're saying there's No True (Scotsman's) Psyop. Where are you drawing the line separating it from aggressive targeting marketing and PR? http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
  - bandyaboot 3y ago
    If the actions are well precedented and widely known such that normal people would not find them shocking, I suppose. So things which we’ve made it since the beginning of the English language without finding the need to call them “psyops” and thereby assigning them fake intrigue. An article saying wrong things about the job market: no. Cambridge Analytica: sure.
    - xupybd 3y ago
      I think you could replace "psyop" with "marketing campaign" for most of the times the expression is used today.
    - cm2012 3y ago
      Cambridge Analytica is also entirely fake, in the sense that it's highly unlikely any votes were affected by it.
      - bandyaboot 3y ago
        I doubt I would ever utter the word seriously to describe something, but operations can fail, no? If it indeed didn’t have any effect, the operation was still pretty shocking and intriguing.
xupybd 3y ago
I live in NZ. Hiring is not easy at the moment. Also our wages are low. Look at the current job postings. https://www.seek.co.nz/Software-Developer-jobs https://www.seek.co.nz/Software-Developer-jobs Then take into account that $1 NZD is equal to 0.59742741 US Dollars. So if you are earning $100k in NZD that is not even $60k USD. Our national average house price is $888,999. It's much higher in big cities. Our food costs are rapidly increasing as well. I pay over $1,000 NZD for power and gas. Smart developers are leaving.
- bacon_waffle 3y ago
  > Smart developers are leaving. I'm in Ōtepoti/Dunedin (best city in NZ!), and within my social network most developers work remotely for overseas companies.
  - xupybd 3y ago
    Good to meet you. I'm in Palmy, (most average city in NZ). That is something I need to look into. I'm guessing now is a bad time to be looking for international work. It seems like the job market is not great internationally.
  - flog 3y ago
    Kia ora from Tauranga 100%. There are 2 NZ employment markets. Those working for NZ companies in the $100k region, and those working for US firms for the $200+k region. I've had an annoying time explaining this to past US employers when they present median values for NZ salary fudge factors.
    - jiggawatts 3y ago
      Where do people find jobs in the US that can be done from outside the US? The few job boards I've seen all have either low salaries, or are US-only...
      - bacon_waffle 3y ago
        I got my first remote gig (firmware work) through a friend's referral, however that was years before COVID-19. These days I'd suggest looking for a remote-first company. Or, maybe apply for remote gigs that say US-only (assuming there's not an obvious or stated reason), then bring up your location when talking to a real human. FWIW - technically I run a NZ company, so am a contractor and not an employee of the company that my day-to-day manager works for. This arrangement seems to be common among people who work for US companies, or are US citizens, which brings up some questions about the stats in the article...
ehnto 3y ago
You are probably right but this is about NZ. I can also attest to it being really difficult to find good hires in Australia at the moment. We have what you might call a grass roots tech scene, not heaps of startup activity, most work is in established businesses or new but bootstrapped going concerns. Sydney and Melb might have a bit more startup activity. Wages here are good for the area, but not SV level good, and I think that makes it slightly less attractive but also less inflammatory. More sustainable as wages are pegged to real dollars in and out of a business.
snoman 3y ago
Honest question: do you have resources or materials that you could refer me to so that I could learn more about how this part of the pr/publishing industry works? I don’t doubt you, and it sounds like one of those “seedy underbelly of the industry” kinds of things that I’d be interested in knowing more about.
- codeangler 3y ago
  Ryan Holiday’s “trust me I’m lying” may reveal the corporate underbelly you are curious about.

whimsicalism 3y ago

[flagged]

crummy 3y ago

What is the goal of this PR piece then?

mrcode007 3y ago
A few years ago a similar move was making rounds in the US to promote increasing of the visa quotas or reforming the system due to the “shortage” Edit: 2013 https://www.brookings.edu/articles/h-1b-visas-and-the-stem-shortage/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/h-1b-visas-and-the-stem-s... 2021 https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/h-1b-visa-reform-is-critical-to-addressing-us-talent-shortage-analysis-finds/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/h-1b-visa-reform-is-... First you plant studies in the news, then you can quote those studies when lobbying lawmakers Edit2: The issue dates back to 1959. There’s always been a “shortage” Kenneth Arrow: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1883726 https://www.jstor.org/stable/1883726
- coliveira 3y ago
  And strangely enough, the goal of these articles is never to increase the number of Americans trained for these plentiful jobs. The idea is always to bring more workers from other countries, so the industry will have an easier time to pay lower salaries.
nostrademons 3y ago
Increase the pool of software engineers, specifically in New Zealand, so companies can hire more easily and don't need to increase salaries. Here's a tip for reading PR pieces: if a company is mentioned in the article and one of their executives is quoted, they are almost always the ones who paid for (and probably wrote) the article. Here, it quotes "NZTech CEO Graeme Muller". If you click through the one link in the article, that one also quotes NZTech CEO Graeme Muller, and all the source data is from NZTech. Reading through it, you see that NZTech is an industry trade association of New Zealand's tech companies. They have a pretty obvious vested interest in increasing the pool of tech workers in New Zealand.
- hluska 3y ago
  Isn’t it more likely that the CEO of an industry wide association would be the best person to comment on trends impacting the whole industry? Edit - I’m a recovering publisher so have a lot of experience being the target of PR and choosing what kinds of articles can be printed.
  - nostrademons 3y ago
    Not really. When assessing the credibility of a source, you have two main questions: do they have the information you need, and do they have an incentive to lie? Industry-wide associations usually have significantly worse information than people who are actually performing the jobs at companies in the organization, and they also have a responsibility to their member orgs to get the best outcomes for them (i.e. represent information in a way that achieves member organization goals). If I wanted accurate information on the state of hiring in an industry, I would look for someone who had recently performed sourcing/interviewing/recruiting for one of the big companies in the industry but had also recently retired, left for another field, or become a stay-at-home mom/dad. They have the firsthand information as part of their job, but they also have no dog in the fight and hence no reason to distort that information.
    - hluska 3y ago
      You have never published, have you? Your last paragraph is all about finding impossible sources whose credibility won’t be apparent to average readers.

bandyaboot 3y ago

Wrong things, often ridiculously wrong things get written all the time. It doesn’t mean it’s the result of a “psyop”. Here’s a roughly accurate flowchart for determining if you’re currently being subject to something that could non-ironically be termed a psyop: “is this a psyop?”—>”no”.

tasogare 3y ago
[dead]
Terr_ 3y ago
It sounds like you're saying there's No True (Scotsman's) Psyop. Where are you drawing the line separating it from aggressive targeting marketing and PR? http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- bandyaboot 3y ago
  If the actions are well precedented and widely known such that normal people would not find them shocking, I suppose. So things which we’ve made it since the beginning of the English language without finding the need to call them “psyops” and thereby assigning them fake intrigue. An article saying wrong things about the job market: no. Cambridge Analytica: sure.
  - xupybd 3y ago
    I think you could replace "psyop" with "marketing campaign" for most of the times the expression is used today.
  - cm2012 3y ago
    Cambridge Analytica is also entirely fake, in the sense that it's highly unlikely any votes were affected by it.
    - bandyaboot 3y ago
      I doubt I would ever utter the word seriously to describe something, but operations can fail, no? If it indeed didn’t have any effect, the operation was still pretty shocking and intriguing.

xupybd 3y ago

I live in NZ. Hiring is not easy at the moment. Also our wages are low. Look at the current job postings. https://www.seek.co.nz/Software-Developer-jobs https://www.seek.co.nz/Software-Developer-jobs Then take into account that $1 NZD is equal to 0.59742741 US Dollars. So if you are earning $100k in NZD that is not even $60k USD. Our national average house price is $888,999. It's much higher in big cities. Our food costs are rapidly increasing as well. I pay over $1,000 NZD for power and gas. Smart developers are leaving.

bacon_waffle 3y ago
> Smart developers are leaving. I'm in Ōtepoti/Dunedin (best city in NZ!), and within my social network most developers work remotely for overseas companies.
- xupybd 3y ago
  Good to meet you. I'm in Palmy, (most average city in NZ). That is something I need to look into. I'm guessing now is a bad time to be looking for international work. It seems like the job market is not great internationally.
- flog 3y ago
  Kia ora from Tauranga 100%. There are 2 NZ employment markets. Those working for NZ companies in the $100k region, and those working for US firms for the $200+k region. I've had an annoying time explaining this to past US employers when they present median values for NZ salary fudge factors.
  - jiggawatts 3y ago
    Where do people find jobs in the US that can be done from outside the US? The few job boards I've seen all have either low salaries, or are US-only...
    - bacon_waffle 3y ago
      I got my first remote gig (firmware work) through a friend's referral, however that was years before COVID-19. These days I'd suggest looking for a remote-first company. Or, maybe apply for remote gigs that say US-only (assuming there's not an obvious or stated reason), then bring up your location when talking to a real human. FWIW - technically I run a NZ company, so am a contractor and not an employee of the company that my day-to-day manager works for. This arrangement seems to be common among people who work for US companies, or are US citizens, which brings up some questions about the stats in the article...

ehnto 3y ago

You are probably right but this is about NZ. I can also attest to it being really difficult to find good hires in Australia at the moment. We have what you might call a grass roots tech scene, not heaps of startup activity, most work is in established businesses or new but bootstrapped going concerns. Sydney and Melb might have a bit more startup activity. Wages here are good for the area, but not SV level good, and I think that makes it slightly less attractive but also less inflammatory. More sustainable as wages are pegged to real dollars in and out of a business.

snoman 3y ago

Honest question: do you have resources or materials that you could refer me to so that I could learn more about how this part of the pr/publishing industry works? I don’t doubt you, and it sounds like one of those “seedy underbelly of the industry” kinds of things that I’d be interested in knowing more about.

codeangler 3y ago
Ryan Holiday’s “trust me I’m lying” may reveal the corporate underbelly you are curious about.