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I have at least one LinkedIn connection at nearly every company for which I'd like to work / for which I've been tracking open roles. In the past, getting a re

I have at least one LinkedIn connection at nearly every company for which I'd like to work / for which I've been tracking open roles. In the past, getting a referral would almost guarantee a recruiter screen (vs just applying online). Now, I get cold-rejected via automated email, even with a personal referral from someone I worked with directly, about 85% of the time. I'm seeing 600+ applicants for a Bay Area FAANG+ EM role listed on LinkedIn, 2 weeks after posting the JD. That doesn't include those that applied directly on the company's career page... Job market rn is wack, yo. edit: specifically front-line EM roles managing ICs

whimsicalism 3y ago
Don’t conflate EM and IC prospects, EM are going to be considerably worse for the immediate future as companies try to slim up on middle management The job market many of you all are describing seems to have been standard for new grads for the last few years
- jh00ker 3y ago
  Correct, specifically front-line EM roles. I added clarification.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Not quite sure what you mean here. "Front-line EM" is still in much worse shape than ICs. While you may argue that front-line EM is not technically "middle" management, I think a lot of companies realize they can be much leaner at pretty much all levels of engineering management - e.g. have a "tech lead" or similar role do much of the work that was previously under an engineering manager. If you're not willing/can't write and ship code, companies are taking a much harder look at those roles.
    - jh00ker 3y ago
      I think of front-line managers (of ICs) as part of "middle management" (anything "in the middle" between ICs and executives) but I can see how some might think of middle management as managers of managers. Anyway, that's why I added the clarification. To your point, yeah, I'm also seeing a lot more "hands on" call outs in JDs for EMs, if not writing code, at least doing code reviews.
hindsightbias 3y ago
> IT employers Idk what EM means, but IT is looking for admins. Try Kansas.
- stavros 3y ago
  Engineering manager.

whimsicalism 3y ago

Don’t conflate EM and IC prospects, EM are going to be considerably worse for the immediate future as companies try to slim up on middle management The job market many of you all are describing seems to have been standard for new grads for the last few years

jh00ker 3y ago
Correct, specifically front-line EM roles. I added clarification.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Not quite sure what you mean here. "Front-line EM" is still in much worse shape than ICs. While you may argue that front-line EM is not technically "middle" management, I think a lot of companies realize they can be much leaner at pretty much all levels of engineering management - e.g. have a "tech lead" or similar role do much of the work that was previously under an engineering manager. If you're not willing/can't write and ship code, companies are taking a much harder look at those roles.
  - jh00ker 3y ago
    I think of front-line managers (of ICs) as part of "middle management" (anything "in the middle" between ICs and executives) but I can see how some might think of middle management as managers of managers. Anyway, that's why I added the clarification. To your point, yeah, I'm also seeing a lot more "hands on" call outs in JDs for EMs, if not writing code, at least doing code reviews.

hindsightbias 3y ago

> IT employers Idk what EM means, but IT is looking for admins. Try Kansas.

stavros 3y ago
Engineering manager.