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"Black Hat" is the professional computer security conference that preceeds Defcon. Defcon was the grungy hobbiest doing crazy shit with computers. Black hat was
by zer8k 3y ago
"Black Hat" is the professional computer security conference that preceeds Defcon. Defcon was the grungy hobbiest doing crazy shit with computers. Black hat was corporate sponsored presentations, stuffy suits, and business cards. At Black Hat you had a real name. At Defcon you had a handle. Black Hat attendees were looked at as sellouts.
Now Defcon is the same way. They even take pre-payment and I'm old enough to remember when DT would've NEVER even floated that idea. I went for 20 years. I quit going after 2018. IMO it died around 2010 but kept floating for a while before sinking.
- tptacek 3y agoBlack Hat was contrived as a device for getting corporate IT departments to pay for their staff (who were already going anyways) to attend Defcon. Since then, it's become one of the primary venues for non-academic offensive security research, so anybody dunking on it is telling on themselves a bit. There are higher-end vulnerability research conferences, but they're not less corporate. There are regional conferences that are much closer in spirit to the Defcon of the 1990s, but while some of that is due to not having a vendor expo (not my favorite Black Hat innovation either), some of it is also due to early Defcon being pretty superficial and non-rigorous. Better if you're looking for a particular kind of social scene, worse if you actually want to see interesting new research.
- screwturner68 3y agoThe difference of course is that Black Hat is really expensive and DEF CON used to be really cheap -you also couldn't pre-purchase a badge so it was more egalitarian. DEF CON used to have more of the punk/libertarian/anarchist vibe where Black Hat was a corporate event. --Just my opinion, you may disagree.
- NavinF 3y ago> They even take pre-payment and I'm old enough to remember when DT would've NEVER even floated that idea What a bizarre complaint. Are we talking about the ability to buy tickets online? Do people not know how to make online payments anonymously? FYI just about every long running convention sells early bird tickets before they've even secured the exhibits and speakers. Cashflow is critical for making anything happen IRL
- zer8k 3y agoI don't think you know what you're talking about. Defcon was quite literally the target of federal fishing expeditions. They were especially heavy when Defcon was often hosting some of the best hackers the planet had to offer. Long before the asinine term "offensive security researcher" was a thing. You operated entirely by handle (unless you were an idiot) and there was even a "spot the fed" competition. Famously, a journalist was ran out of the conference trying to film To Catch A Hacker (or something, the memory is fading). The cash-at-the-door was a safety mechanism to prevent such fishing expeditions. At Defcon you were always under attack. That is, until it became a corporate playground. Now it's a place where skids go to buy the newest pineapple and stuffy suits go to network with other "researchers". You really had to be there to understand. Woodstock For Hackers is a close approximation. For those of us that were there during it's hey-day seeing what it is today is like watching your favorite hero live long enough to become the villain. 15 years ago the idea of "responsible disclosure" would've been the punchline of a joke at a small Track 3 talk.
- NavinF 3y ago> cash-at-the-door was a safety mechanism to prevent such fishing expeditions You were at an in-person event, thinking that cash somehow kept you more anonymous than online payments? I think this is just a generational gap.
- hiatus 3y agoIt certainly creates a lot more work for authorities than simply gaining the attendee list.