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Most vanilla flavour, 99%, is produced by creating synthetic vanillin. I guess this is included.

by mianos 3y ago

crazygringo 3y ago
That 99% (or 1%) value keeps getting repeated in countless blog posts and articles, but I've never seen an actual source. And I find it hard to believe, given that Coca-Cola uses real vanilla and is so widely consumed. Surely more than 1% of people's overall vanilla consumption is in Coca-Cola? Or I wonder if the ratio is vastly different worldwide vs. in the US?
- mercutio2 3y ago
  What gave you the impression Coca Cola uses vanilla beans OR vanillin? Different regions use different ingredients for Coke, so I guess it’s possible this is true in your region, but my coke can in California doesn’t appear to list Vanilla in its ingredients. Additionally, there was this lawsuit about Vanilla Orange Coke containining vanillin, which leads me to think it’s unlikely there’s much Vanilla Bean involved in non-Vanilla Coke, at least: https://www.classaction.org/news/fake-vanilla-coca-cola-company-facing-class-action-over-labeling-of-orange-vanilla-coke https://www.classaction.org/news/fake-vanilla-coca-cola-comp... With that said, numbers like 99% of vanilla being from vanillin does sound like a made up statistic.
  - mianos 3y ago
    While I agree that 99% seems made up. I am a bit of a chemistry hobbyist and produce a wide range of flavourings. I have also been to vanilla farms and bought lots of vanilla pods. The yield from vanilla pods, not matter what process I tried, such as, a very long soak on ethanol, hot ethanol or Soxhlet extraction, yield so little I find it hard to believe any of those bulk consumer products container real vanilla from pods. Just anecdotal or course, a sample of one and all that. :)
    - moritzwarhier 3y ago
      I also see no rational reason that the average Coca Cola serving contain any amount of real vanilla pods, given how expensive it is and that vanillin is chemically identical with one main flavoring compund contained in real vanilla. If Coke (or Coke Vanilla even) would cobtain real vanilla, they'd advertise it for sure. I don't remember anything like that
      - ForOldHack 3y ago
        "Together they make up a vanilla flavor. Vanillin is just one molecule in that complex mixture, but an important one. However, whereas vanilla will always contain vanillin, just because something contains vanillin doesn't mean it contains vanilla beans." Two thins: Its up to the local bottler whether to use Cane Sugar or beet sugar or Vanilla or Vanillin. Mexican coke uses both Cane sugar and Vanilla. A bar coke from a canister usually had the syrup a bit heavy so you can taste the difference much easier.
        moritzwarhier 3y ago
        OK, so it might contain some id you're lucky. That's what was trying to say by using the "average" qualifier though. I doubt there's much economic incentive to use real vanilla in 99% of the world / Coca-Cola's market. With the different types of sugar, it's easier for me to imagine a company doing this for economic reasons. There are some very old articles on the web from when Vanilla Coke was introduced, that they had been draining European markets for vanilla pods, ostensively. Sounds like astroturfing to me honestly. There's also a clas action lawsuit about missing real vanilla :D
    - wlesieutre 3y ago
      Call me cynical, but does anything stop companies from using one drop of real vanilla extract, a couple of gallons of artificial vanilla flavor, and then stick it in the ingredients as “natural and artificial flavors” and put a big “MADE WITH REAL VANILLA” badge on the front?
      - 3y ago
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    Because it's a famous fact. It's included in "natural flavors" -- it doesn't list any of its flavorings, obviously. When New Coke was introduced in 1985, it replaced the vanilla with vanillin, and the Madagascar economy crashed since that's where the vanilla comes from. Then when Coke Classic was (re-)introduced, it brought back the real vanilla and the Madagascar economy recovered. At least that's the story that keeps being repeated -- my understanding is that Coca-Cola won't officially confirm/deny since they keep all their flavorings secret. (It's not like I work for Coke or anything.) Just google "new coke vanilla madagascar" and you'll find where it all comes from.
    - civilitty 3y ago
      > Just google "new coke vanilla madagascar" and you'll find where it all comes from. Do you have a source, perhaps from the Madagascar government? I googled your phrase and all I got was a bunch of urban myth style blogspam all linking back to a single WSJ article from 1985.
      - rcme 3y ago
        Was the WSJ article credible? “All I found is an article in one of the world’s premier news publications” doesn’t match your implied tone.
        civilitty 3y ago
        From the wikipedia article on new Coke: > New Coke was introduced on April 23, 1985. Production of the original formulation ended later that week. Madagascar’s GDP grew from 3.9 to 4.3 billion between 1984 and 1986 well after Coca Cola would have stopped buying vanilla beans. There was a significant “collapse” to 3.2 billion in 1987 but that followed a 1986 Structural Adjustment Program with the IMF that called for significant budget cuts, liberalization, and austerity. The time line just doesn’t line up. As far as I can tell the commodity woes that struck Madagascar in the mid 1980s had to do with coffee, not vanilla. So the answer is no, I don’t find glorified 1980s just-so blogspam in the WSJ to be credible just because it’s got recognizable initials like “WSJ”. It doesn’t even pass basic sanity checks.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - GuB-42 3y ago
    I hope that Coca Cola uses the artificial stuff. It would be a waste of good vanilla if it wasn't the case. I looked at the product sheet ov vanilla coke in France, where it is a legal obligation to list how much of the ingredients mentioned on the packaging are present, and vanilla isn't mentioned at all, only "vanilla flavor" (most likely artificial vanillin). So it is very likely that not a single pod is involved in the manufacturing of the drink. At least in France, and considering the price of vanilla, probably in the rest of the world as well. When considering exports, vanillin probably doesn't count since it is not vanilla.
- hinkley 3y ago
  I bet you'd be surprised how much synthetic vanilla someone like Nabisco could go through without making something 'vanilla flavored'. Vanilla in chocolate flavored items punches up the flavor.
- justinator 3y ago
  The ingredients of Coca-Cola are a trade secret.
iszomer 3y ago
Maybe they'll go back to using castoreum..
- hinkley 3y ago
  Not enough beavers. But we make red food coloring out of ground up bugs so maybe.

Most vanilla flavour, 99%, is produced by creating synthetic vanillin. I guess this is included.

by mianos 3y ago

Most vanilla flavour, 99%, is produced by creating synthetic vanillin. I guess this is included.

That 99% (or 1%) value keeps getting repeated in countless blog posts and articles, but I've never seen an actual source. And I find it hard to believe, given that Coca-Cola uses real vanilla and is so widely consumed. Surely more than 1% of people's overall vanilla consumption is in Coca-Cola? Or I wonder if the ratio is vastly different worldwide vs. in the US?

mercutio2 3y ago
What gave you the impression Coca Cola uses vanilla beans OR vanillin? Different regions use different ingredients for Coke, so I guess it’s possible this is true in your region, but my coke can in California doesn’t appear to list Vanilla in its ingredients. Additionally, there was this lawsuit about Vanilla Orange Coke containining vanillin, which leads me to think it’s unlikely there’s much Vanilla Bean involved in non-Vanilla Coke, at least: https://www.classaction.org/news/fake-vanilla-coca-cola-company-facing-class-action-over-labeling-of-orange-vanilla-coke https://www.classaction.org/news/fake-vanilla-coca-cola-comp... With that said, numbers like 99% of vanilla being from vanillin does sound like a made up statistic.
- mianos 3y ago
  While I agree that 99% seems made up. I am a bit of a chemistry hobbyist and produce a wide range of flavourings. I have also been to vanilla farms and bought lots of vanilla pods. The yield from vanilla pods, not matter what process I tried, such as, a very long soak on ethanol, hot ethanol or Soxhlet extraction, yield so little I find it hard to believe any of those bulk consumer products container real vanilla from pods. Just anecdotal or course, a sample of one and all that. :)
  - moritzwarhier 3y ago
    I also see no rational reason that the average Coca Cola serving contain any amount of real vanilla pods, given how expensive it is and that vanillin is chemically identical with one main flavoring compund contained in real vanilla. If Coke (or Coke Vanilla even) would cobtain real vanilla, they'd advertise it for sure. I don't remember anything like that
    - ForOldHack 3y ago
      "Together they make up a vanilla flavor. Vanillin is just one molecule in that complex mixture, but an important one. However, whereas vanilla will always contain vanillin, just because something contains vanillin doesn't mean it contains vanilla beans." Two thins: Its up to the local bottler whether to use Cane Sugar or beet sugar or Vanilla or Vanillin. Mexican coke uses both Cane sugar and Vanilla. A bar coke from a canister usually had the syrup a bit heavy so you can taste the difference much easier.
      - moritzwarhier 3y ago
        OK, so it might contain some id you're lucky. That's what was trying to say by using the "average" qualifier though. I doubt there's much economic incentive to use real vanilla in 99% of the world / Coca-Cola's market. With the different types of sugar, it's easier for me to imagine a company doing this for economic reasons. There are some very old articles on the web from when Vanilla Coke was introduced, that they had been draining European markets for vanilla pods, ostensively. Sounds like astroturfing to me honestly. There's also a clas action lawsuit about missing real vanilla :D
  - wlesieutre 3y ago
    Call me cynical, but does anything stop companies from using one drop of real vanilla extract, a couple of gallons of artificial vanilla flavor, and then stick it in the ingredients as “natural and artificial flavors” and put a big “MADE WITH REAL VANILLA” badge on the front?
    - 3y ago
- crazygringo 3y ago
  Because it's a famous fact. It's included in "natural flavors" -- it doesn't list any of its flavorings, obviously. When New Coke was introduced in 1985, it replaced the vanilla with vanillin, and the Madagascar economy crashed since that's where the vanilla comes from. Then when Coke Classic was (re-)introduced, it brought back the real vanilla and the Madagascar economy recovered. At least that's the story that keeps being repeated -- my understanding is that Coca-Cola won't officially confirm/deny since they keep all their flavorings secret. (It's not like I work for Coke or anything.) Just google "new coke vanilla madagascar" and you'll find where it all comes from.
  - civilitty 3y ago
    > Just google "new coke vanilla madagascar" and you'll find where it all comes from. Do you have a source, perhaps from the Madagascar government? I googled your phrase and all I got was a bunch of urban myth style blogspam all linking back to a single WSJ article from 1985.
    - rcme 3y ago
      Was the WSJ article credible? “All I found is an article in one of the world’s premier news publications” doesn’t match your implied tone.
      - civilitty 3y ago
        From the wikipedia article on new Coke: > New Coke was introduced on April 23, 1985. Production of the original formulation ended later that week. Madagascar’s GDP grew from 3.9 to 4.3 billion between 1984 and 1986 well after Coca Cola would have stopped buying vanilla beans. There was a significant “collapse” to 3.2 billion in 1987 but that followed a 1986 Structural Adjustment Program with the IMF that called for significant budget cuts, liberalization, and austerity. The time line just doesn’t line up. As far as I can tell the commodity woes that struck Madagascar in the mid 1980s had to do with coffee, not vanilla. So the answer is no, I don’t find glorified 1980s just-so blogspam in the WSJ to be credible just because it’s got recognizable initials like “WSJ”. It doesn’t even pass basic sanity checks.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- GuB-42 3y ago
  I hope that Coca Cola uses the artificial stuff. It would be a waste of good vanilla if it wasn't the case. I looked at the product sheet ov vanilla coke in France, where it is a legal obligation to list how much of the ingredients mentioned on the packaging are present, and vanilla isn't mentioned at all, only "vanilla flavor" (most likely artificial vanillin). So it is very likely that not a single pod is involved in the manufacturing of the drink. At least in France, and considering the price of vanilla, probably in the rest of the world as well. When considering exports, vanillin probably doesn't count since it is not vanilla.
hinkley 3y ago
I bet you'd be surprised how much synthetic vanilla someone like Nabisco could go through without making something 'vanilla flavored'. Vanilla in chocolate flavored items punches up the flavor.
justinator 3y ago
The ingredients of Coca-Cola are a trade secret.

iszomer 3y ago

Maybe they'll go back to using castoreum..

hinkley 3y ago
Not enough beavers. But we make red food coloring out of ground up bugs so maybe.