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> during the 90s > one of the most hopeful/optimistic periods in human history I first thought that you were American, but then I read more carefully > and l

by yhavr 3y ago

> during the 90s > one of the most hopeful/optimistic periods in human history I first thought that you were American, but then I read more carefully > and lived in Russia Sorry, but how can you combine "90s" and "optimistic" if you witnessed it by yourself? For post-soviet people it was a nightmare, it was a total collapse of their world, with oligarchy, banditry, miserable salaries (or no salaries at all). I was a kid during that time, but I'm pretty sure nobody was giving a flying duck about US budged surpluses, and people wasn't able to admire the rise of internet, because they got it only in 00s.

nine_k 3y ago
Why, the 1990s were the time when Communism finally fell, and something closely resembling a Western system (if you squint just right) was being built. Also, times of tumult like the 1990s are always times of opportunity for those who has the energy and connections. Huge businesses have been built in Russia during 1990s, and many of them were built honestly, so to say, not by plundering some Soviet-era resources. Some obvious examples familiar for the IT crowd would be Yandex, Kaspersky, ABBYY.
- yhavr 3y ago
  The system wasn't even close to the Western one. On the opposite, it was raise of lawlessness and crime. Yes, people had connections, connections with mafia. Either for paying racket, or even participating in their business. It was extremely hard to be a fair player (western style) that time.
  - nine_k 3y ago
    But look! A parliament, with actual-looking elections! Actual-looking (though of course rigged) presidential elections! Free to open your own business! (Well, subject to dealing with mafia and corrupt police.) The influx of the Western merchandise, and of the Western media! And the Communist rule most obviously gone! It was quite different from Soviet times, different enough to keep an illusion of things going in the right general direction in a sufficient number of people, especially in large cities, despite impoverishment and wars. The powers that were pushed the idea that it's either these transient problems, or the Communist rule back! (Which was ironic since many of them used to be high-ranking Communist leaders.) After that, the mafia and KGB have completely overtaken the dominant heights, including the president office, so they strangled non-systemic local corruption. Oil prices also helped. The economy was growing. Some time in 2005, life in Russia might look genuinely attractive, if you happened to live in Moscow. Much like life in Shanghai might look fantastic, rich and free in 2005, too, compared to the times of the Great Leap. But the authoritarianism bomb kept ticking.
    - yhavr 3y ago
      Yes, and empty shelves in the shops, and absence of salaries, joblessness. Maybe in the beginning some people really believed in the changes, but they quickly got disillusioned. The thing is, under commies people were brainwashed that they live in the best country in the world. It wasn't some kind of evil dystopia with everybody suffering. Yes, they were poor, but they didn't know life outside do compare to understand their poverty. The state gave everybody the bare minimum to live. The state gave the clear direction and meaning of life. Even now there are plenty of (older-ish) people who feel nostalgic about that times! edit: I agree that in 00s the situation became better, but that's the point, that life in 2005 != 1994.
baybal2 3y ago
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by yhavr 3y ago

nine_k 3y ago

Why, the 1990s were the time when Communism finally fell, and something closely resembling a Western system (if you squint just right) was being built. Also, times of tumult like the 1990s are always times of opportunity for those who has the energy and connections. Huge businesses have been built in Russia during 1990s, and many of them were built honestly, so to say, not by plundering some Soviet-era resources. Some obvious examples familiar for the IT crowd would be Yandex, Kaspersky, ABBYY.

yhavr 3y ago
The system wasn't even close to the Western one. On the opposite, it was raise of lawlessness and crime. Yes, people had connections, connections with mafia. Either for paying racket, or even participating in their business. It was extremely hard to be a fair player (western style) that time.
- nine_k 3y ago
  But look! A parliament, with actual-looking elections! Actual-looking (though of course rigged) presidential elections! Free to open your own business! (Well, subject to dealing with mafia and corrupt police.) The influx of the Western merchandise, and of the Western media! And the Communist rule most obviously gone! It was quite different from Soviet times, different enough to keep an illusion of things going in the right general direction in a sufficient number of people, especially in large cities, despite impoverishment and wars. The powers that were pushed the idea that it's either these transient problems, or the Communist rule back! (Which was ironic since many of them used to be high-ranking Communist leaders.) After that, the mafia and KGB have completely overtaken the dominant heights, including the president office, so they strangled non-systemic local corruption. Oil prices also helped. The economy was growing. Some time in 2005, life in Russia might look genuinely attractive, if you happened to live in Moscow. Much like life in Shanghai might look fantastic, rich and free in 2005, too, compared to the times of the Great Leap. But the authoritarianism bomb kept ticking.
  - yhavr 3y ago
    Yes, and empty shelves in the shops, and absence of salaries, joblessness. Maybe in the beginning some people really believed in the changes, but they quickly got disillusioned. The thing is, under commies people were brainwashed that they live in the best country in the world. It wasn't some kind of evil dystopia with everybody suffering. Yes, they were poor, but they didn't know life outside do compare to understand their poverty. The state gave everybody the bare minimum to live. The state gave the clear direction and meaning of life. Even now there are plenty of (older-ish) people who feel nostalgic about that times! edit: I agree that in 00s the situation became better, but that's the point, that life in 2005 != 1994.

baybal2 3y ago

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