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He bought into Tesla; he didn't come up with the ideas nor found it. SpaceX came at a time when NASA was investing in private companies to replace the shuttle p

He bought into Tesla; he didn't come up with the ideas nor found it. SpaceX came at a time when NASA was investing in private companies to replace the shuttle program (and more). He didn't come up with any of the ideas there, either. As far as I can tell he hasn't invented anything of note.

solardev 3y ago
I'm as annoyed/disappointed by his antics as anyone, but I think he does deserve credit for making two (three, if you count Starlink) very difficult industries happen. Electric cars were dead until Tesla, plenty of SpaceX competitors never made it (like Bezos's and Carmack's and the British one). Whether or not he "invented" these things, he made them an everyday reality the same way Steve Jobs made the smartphone an everyday reality. I don't like Musk very much these days, but he did undeniably change the world not once but thrice. I mean, comparatively, Bezos improved logistics, Gates made office software, and Jobs made a telephone. Are these notable "inventions"?
- deprecative 3y ago
  Without Elon all of the things would have happened - he just jumped in and siphoned wealth via public funding. His companies did great - he didn't.
  - Gud 3y ago
    That’s not at all a given. To bootstrap mass production of electric cars requires a lot of risk, it was by no means certain it would pan out. Now that it’s a given the rest of the car manufacturers are racing to keep up. Same can be said with reusable rockets - why weren’t anyone else pursuing this? I think I know the answer(weak leadership from ULA etc).
  - RetroTechie 3y ago
    solardev summarized my opinion of Musk pretty well. I don't know enough about the space industry. SpaceX did introduce some pretty significant advances. But EVs: yeah they would have happened - eventually. Big car makers sat on their asses (concerning EVs), and would have kept doing so for another 5..10y or longer. Tesla took the lead, broke that market wide open, scaled up battery production enormously (which also served other applications like grid storage), and forced car makers to get in on the game or be left behind. Those car makers would have produced EVs on their own. On their timeline. But Musk kickstarted that market on his timeline. Years sooner than would have happened otherwise. Debate how many years all you want. But net effect is an enormous benefit to society. Personally, I think it may come down to stress / pressure. Musk has worked hard, for a long time. Maybe he didn't get enough sleep. Or didn't get laid (often enough, anyway :-). NOT saying he did, but if it turns out he's been popping pills or snorting coke, I would be neither surprised nor hold it against him (or even care, tbh). Regardless, such pressure tends to bring up the darker side in people. But who am I to tell Musk he needs a vacation? Fun fact: bought a pack of 70 Li-ions recently (21700) for use on my boat. These were manufactured and/or designed by Samsung... for Tesla. I didn't buy them 'cause Tesla fanboy. They're not even the chemistry I preferred. But I got 'em because they worked out to the lowest price per Wh stored (in my case, ~800 Wh total for just over €100). Tesla-initiated economies of scale. And in the meanwhile, there's now global internet access thx to StarLink. Like him or not, feel free to think he's a lunatic or an asshole, but Elon Musk has pushed humanity forward.
  - solardev 3y ago
    When? EVs were dead in the water for decades until Tesla. Space travel has stalled since the Cold War. Satellite internet... DirecTV was a joke that used dialup or DSL upstream. A lot of industries are driven by the difficulties of operations, not necessarily innovations. He jumpstarted all three where even nation states could not. To this day I can't get better satellite internet from any other company, all electric cars are still measured against Teslas (even though I'd prefer a Rivian or Subaru/Toyota myself), and SpaceX is the doing more launch development than the US, China, and Russia combined. That doesn't make him a great inventor, perhaps, but it does make him a great something... businessman, organizer, dreamer perhaps? No one's accusing him of singlehandedly advancing science or anything like that. But he did tackle three very difficult and capital and labor and logistics and legal problems and made them all a reality where many other companies and countries have tried and failed (and continue to lag behind). Those aren't trivial accomplishments and we'd be lucky to see any of them in a generation, much less all three from the same person. There is no guarantee another person could've done all that, not even a president.
    - deprecative 3y ago
      He didn't found Tesla. He didn't invent the EV. SpaceX is doing great work. That same talent would have been available in the market for hire by anyone if SpaceX hadn't been around. He didn't invent satellite Internet connectivity. I don't understand this hero worship that goes on in the tech sphere for a known grifter who thrives on Daddy's money and taxpayer subsidies.
      - solardev 3y ago
        At the risk of sounding repetitive, I have to point out that it's not about what he innovated or invented, but his ability to organize capital and labor behind these projects where others couldn't. You keep saying anyone could've, but the fact is they didn't and still don't. Armadillo, Blue Origin, Virgin, NASA, all gave up or remain bit players. None of them invented rockets, any could've hired engineers, but SpaceX is the only one that actually made all that happen. And on automotive front, the big car markers are STILL playing catchup. No one is saying Musk is a great inventor, or even an inventor at all. Just that he successfully organized others into worthwhile projects. It's not hero worship, it's giving credit where it's due. Compare Musk to someone like Trump or Ellison or Zuckerberg or your average crypto bro founder. He's contributed far more to society by taking huge risks in industries that others had already given up on. Not every rich asshole does that.
panick21_ 3y ago
Musk and JB were walking to AC Peopulsion about creating a car company based on their tech. The CEO of AC Peopulsion told them another valley company had just started with the same plan. Tesla found no investors and were a half dead garage company. Musk deciding to finance Tesla and have JB be the CTO is quite a bit different then just buying in. The difficulty in building an EV company was never the initial prototpye as anybody who has studied this space knows. Tesla was an utter shitshow until Musk took over the CEO and the company since then has been incredibly successful. Its baffling that look at that and then dismiss it because he didnt start the company in a garage. And your history of SpaceX is even worse. i don't even know where you got that nonsense. You timeline is off byany years at least. The DoD was looking at responsive launch at the time and that was far more relevant then NASA. But the DoD outside of a little student sat didn't book any flights. Invention is just a strange term, are we only consider the guy by himself sits in a lab and figures out some new thing an inventor? Musk is not that. But that doesn't make what he did less impressive. The companies he has built, and has lead are certaintly innovative.
- fullshark 3y ago
  Having spent way too many years online talking about this stuff, it's hilarious how Engineers constantly discredit anyone at these companies that didn't code/invent the thing entirely by themselves. Bill Gates just bought MS-DOS, Steve Jobs just marketed Wozniak's invention, etc.
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    As if DOS was a technical rather then a buissness achievment.

solardev 3y ago

I'm as annoyed/disappointed by his antics as anyone, but I think he does deserve credit for making two (three, if you count Starlink) very difficult industries happen. Electric cars were dead until Tesla, plenty of SpaceX competitors never made it (like Bezos's and Carmack's and the British one). Whether or not he "invented" these things, he made them an everyday reality the same way Steve Jobs made the smartphone an everyday reality. I don't like Musk very much these days, but he did undeniably change the world not once but thrice. I mean, comparatively, Bezos improved logistics, Gates made office software, and Jobs made a telephone. Are these notable "inventions"?

deprecative 3y ago
Without Elon all of the things would have happened - he just jumped in and siphoned wealth via public funding. His companies did great - he didn't.
- Gud 3y ago
  That’s not at all a given. To bootstrap mass production of electric cars requires a lot of risk, it was by no means certain it would pan out. Now that it’s a given the rest of the car manufacturers are racing to keep up. Same can be said with reusable rockets - why weren’t anyone else pursuing this? I think I know the answer(weak leadership from ULA etc).
- RetroTechie 3y ago
  solardev summarized my opinion of Musk pretty well. I don't know enough about the space industry. SpaceX did introduce some pretty significant advances. But EVs: yeah they would have happened - eventually. Big car makers sat on their asses (concerning EVs), and would have kept doing so for another 5..10y or longer. Tesla took the lead, broke that market wide open, scaled up battery production enormously (which also served other applications like grid storage), and forced car makers to get in on the game or be left behind. Those car makers would have produced EVs on their own. On their timeline. But Musk kickstarted that market on his timeline. Years sooner than would have happened otherwise. Debate how many years all you want. But net effect is an enormous benefit to society. Personally, I think it may come down to stress / pressure. Musk has worked hard, for a long time. Maybe he didn't get enough sleep. Or didn't get laid (often enough, anyway :-). NOT saying he did, but if it turns out he's been popping pills or snorting coke, I would be neither surprised nor hold it against him (or even care, tbh). Regardless, such pressure tends to bring up the darker side in people. But who am I to tell Musk he needs a vacation? Fun fact: bought a pack of 70 Li-ions recently (21700) for use on my boat. These were manufactured and/or designed by Samsung... for Tesla. I didn't buy them 'cause Tesla fanboy. They're not even the chemistry I preferred. But I got 'em because they worked out to the lowest price per Wh stored (in my case, ~800 Wh total for just over €100). Tesla-initiated economies of scale. And in the meanwhile, there's now global internet access thx to StarLink. Like him or not, feel free to think he's a lunatic or an asshole, but Elon Musk has pushed humanity forward.
- solardev 3y ago
  When? EVs were dead in the water for decades until Tesla. Space travel has stalled since the Cold War. Satellite internet... DirecTV was a joke that used dialup or DSL upstream. A lot of industries are driven by the difficulties of operations, not necessarily innovations. He jumpstarted all three where even nation states could not. To this day I can't get better satellite internet from any other company, all electric cars are still measured against Teslas (even though I'd prefer a Rivian or Subaru/Toyota myself), and SpaceX is the doing more launch development than the US, China, and Russia combined. That doesn't make him a great inventor, perhaps, but it does make him a great something... businessman, organizer, dreamer perhaps? No one's accusing him of singlehandedly advancing science or anything like that. But he did tackle three very difficult and capital and labor and logistics and legal problems and made them all a reality where many other companies and countries have tried and failed (and continue to lag behind). Those aren't trivial accomplishments and we'd be lucky to see any of them in a generation, much less all three from the same person. There is no guarantee another person could've done all that, not even a president.
  - deprecative 3y ago
    He didn't found Tesla. He didn't invent the EV. SpaceX is doing great work. That same talent would have been available in the market for hire by anyone if SpaceX hadn't been around. He didn't invent satellite Internet connectivity. I don't understand this hero worship that goes on in the tech sphere for a known grifter who thrives on Daddy's money and taxpayer subsidies.
    - solardev 3y ago
      At the risk of sounding repetitive, I have to point out that it's not about what he innovated or invented, but his ability to organize capital and labor behind these projects where others couldn't. You keep saying anyone could've, but the fact is they didn't and still don't. Armadillo, Blue Origin, Virgin, NASA, all gave up or remain bit players. None of them invented rockets, any could've hired engineers, but SpaceX is the only one that actually made all that happen. And on automotive front, the big car markers are STILL playing catchup. No one is saying Musk is a great inventor, or even an inventor at all. Just that he successfully organized others into worthwhile projects. It's not hero worship, it's giving credit where it's due. Compare Musk to someone like Trump or Ellison or Zuckerberg or your average crypto bro founder. He's contributed far more to society by taking huge risks in industries that others had already given up on. Not every rich asshole does that.

panick21_ 3y ago

Musk and JB were walking to AC Peopulsion about creating a car company based on their tech. The CEO of AC Peopulsion told them another valley company had just started with the same plan. Tesla found no investors and were a half dead garage company. Musk deciding to finance Tesla and have JB be the CTO is quite a bit different then just buying in. The difficulty in building an EV company was never the initial prototpye as anybody who has studied this space knows. Tesla was an utter shitshow until Musk took over the CEO and the company since then has been incredibly successful. Its baffling that look at that and then dismiss it because he didnt start the company in a garage. And your history of SpaceX is even worse. i don't even know where you got that nonsense. You timeline is off byany years at least. The DoD was looking at responsive launch at the time and that was far more relevant then NASA. But the DoD outside of a little student sat didn't book any flights. Invention is just a strange term, are we only consider the guy by himself sits in a lab and figures out some new thing an inventor? Musk is not that. But that doesn't make what he did less impressive. The companies he has built, and has lead are certaintly innovative.

fullshark 3y ago
Having spent way too many years online talking about this stuff, it's hilarious how Engineers constantly discredit anyone at these companies that didn't code/invent the thing entirely by themselves. Bill Gates just bought MS-DOS, Steve Jobs just marketed Wozniak's invention, etc.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  As if DOS was a technical rather then a buissness achievment.