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Goooooooood luck driving off a dealer lot with a $22k Toyota! Seriously, if you can do it then good on you! But back in the real world the on the lot availabi

Goooooooood luck driving off a dealer lot with a $22k Toyota! Seriously, if you can do it then good on you! But back in the real world the on the lot availability of cars is abysmal and most makes are sold out for months of backlog. Like if you want a Toyota minivan it's something like a 2 year wait--unless you are willing to buy one on the lot with a $10k dealer markup.

scarface_74 3y ago
Then don’t buy a new car? Buy used.
- nickjj 3y ago
  > Then don’t buy a new car? Buy used. In 1998 I bought a used 1989 Chevy Corsica for $1,800 all-in out the door. I'll admit I don't remember how many miles it had but it never had any major problems in all the years I drove it. There was a near unlimited sea of options for ~10 year old cars for around $2,000. In 2023, if you want a similar size 10 year old car (2013) a quick Googling suggests you'll be paying about $10,000 minimum for a car with 100-120k miles on it. Expect to pay $20,000 if you want a low'ish amount of miles (under 25k). Keep in mind this is the price on the website which you know will be more by the time you really purchase it.
  - 221qqwe 3y ago
    Car nowadays are significantly more reliable than back in the 80s so arguable a 10 year old car back in 1989 is the equivalent of a 15+ year one now. But yeah it's still quite a bit more expensive, $2,000 is equivalent to about $5,000 now.
    - nickjj 3y ago
      > But yeah it's still quite a bit more expensive, $2,000 is equivalent to about $5,000 now. It's not quite that much. You calculated inflation off 1989 when the sale happened in 1998. An inflation calculator puts $1,800 @ 1998 being worth $3,375 @ 2023. It's a massive difference in how much more expensive an inflation adjusted car is nowadays.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    I’m seeing cars at Carmax that are ten years old with low 100K miles for around $13K. I could probably get it cheaper. But I’ve gotten four cars from Carmax over the years and the service and the buying process makes it worth the premium. The only car we had problems with was 10 year old Jeep for my son that we had to keep taking back for various things for the first couple of months. The manager proactively reached out to me and offered to reimburse one month payment. After those two months, we never had a problem with it.
FormerBandmate 3y ago
Toyota is the worst make for this, but yeah. The Corolla quote I got all inclusive was $28K and the Camry quote was $37K so I ended up going with a Tesla 3 for $34K after taxes. Much better in every way but it’s still fucking expensive, especially with insurance
gruez 3y ago
In other words, it's actually available for $22k. You just get it right now. That seems... fine? I guess it sucks for the people who need a new car in the past 2 years, but given that the average age of cars on the road is around 12 years, that's a small fraction of people. It certainly doesn't support the original claim that $30k cars are the reason why people getting in debt.
- qbasic_forever 3y ago
  I don't think you understand how new cars are sold in the US. You can't click buttons and order the car from the website, you have to work with a dealer and convince them it's worth their time to order a car for you. I got some bad news, there is no dealership that thinks a $22k Corolla is worth their time when dozens of other buyers are willing to spend $30-40k or more for other models. The higher the price out the door generally the more money the dealership is making.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Not if you buy used…
  - gruez 3y ago
    > You can't click buttons and order the car from the website, you have to work with a dealer and convince them it's worth their time to order a car for you. I'm well aware. It's just that toyota.com is an online resource that's easy to find and and verify. Sure, dealer pricing is more "accurate", but it requires much more legwork on my part and even then it turns the whole thread into an anecdote-fest with people saying "well the dealers in my area are charging $9000 market price adjustment (or whatever) so you're wrong!" or "I called around a few dealerships and found one that gave me a $2000 discount!". Doing a quick search on reddit for "dealer markups" in the past 6 months turns up plenty of anecdotes of people being able to secure cars with no or very little dealer markups.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
sarchertech 3y ago
Minivans are a special case that's not a good example. Minivan's have been drastically dropping in popularity (as defined by market share)for the last 20 years. Many models have been discontinued, and remaining models are being made in much lower quantity. It's basically a very niche product at this point at somewhere around 2% of all new vehicles sold. Now there are only really 5 models of minivan left, so any small jump in purchasing, or misforecasts by a manufacturer leads to huge backlogs.
88913527 3y ago
Paying for rideshare and waiting for delivery is cheaper than paying the $10k markup for the drive-off-the-lot-today option.

scarface_74 3y ago

Then don’t buy a new car? Buy used.

nickjj 3y ago
> Then don’t buy a new car? Buy used. In 1998 I bought a used 1989 Chevy Corsica for $1,800 all-in out the door. I'll admit I don't remember how many miles it had but it never had any major problems in all the years I drove it. There was a near unlimited sea of options for ~10 year old cars for around $2,000. In 2023, if you want a similar size 10 year old car (2013) a quick Googling suggests you'll be paying about $10,000 minimum for a car with 100-120k miles on it. Expect to pay $20,000 if you want a low'ish amount of miles (under 25k). Keep in mind this is the price on the website which you know will be more by the time you really purchase it.
- 221qqwe 3y ago
  Car nowadays are significantly more reliable than back in the 80s so arguable a 10 year old car back in 1989 is the equivalent of a 15+ year one now. But yeah it's still quite a bit more expensive, $2,000 is equivalent to about $5,000 now.
  - nickjj 3y ago
    > But yeah it's still quite a bit more expensive, $2,000 is equivalent to about $5,000 now. It's not quite that much. You calculated inflation off 1989 when the sale happened in 1998. An inflation calculator puts $1,800 @ 1998 being worth $3,375 @ 2023. It's a massive difference in how much more expensive an inflation adjusted car is nowadays.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  I’m seeing cars at Carmax that are ten years old with low 100K miles for around $13K. I could probably get it cheaper. But I’ve gotten four cars from Carmax over the years and the service and the buying process makes it worth the premium. The only car we had problems with was 10 year old Jeep for my son that we had to keep taking back for various things for the first couple of months. The manager proactively reached out to me and offered to reimburse one month payment. After those two months, we never had a problem with it.

FormerBandmate 3y ago

Toyota is the worst make for this, but yeah. The Corolla quote I got all inclusive was $28K and the Camry quote was $37K so I ended up going with a Tesla 3 for $34K after taxes. Much better in every way but it’s still fucking expensive, especially with insurance

gruez 3y ago

In other words, it's actually available for $22k. You just get it right now. That seems... fine? I guess it sucks for the people who need a new car in the past 2 years, but given that the average age of cars on the road is around 12 years, that's a small fraction of people. It certainly doesn't support the original claim that $30k cars are the reason why people getting in debt.

qbasic_forever 3y ago
I don't think you understand how new cars are sold in the US. You can't click buttons and order the car from the website, you have to work with a dealer and convince them it's worth their time to order a car for you. I got some bad news, there is no dealership that thinks a $22k Corolla is worth their time when dozens of other buyers are willing to spend $30-40k or more for other models. The higher the price out the door generally the more money the dealership is making.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Not if you buy used…
- gruez 3y ago
  > You can't click buttons and order the car from the website, you have to work with a dealer and convince them it's worth their time to order a car for you. I'm well aware. It's just that toyota.com is an online resource that's easy to find and and verify. Sure, dealer pricing is more "accurate", but it requires much more legwork on my part and even then it turns the whole thread into an anecdote-fest with people saying "well the dealers in my area are charging $9000 market price adjustment (or whatever) so you're wrong!" or "I called around a few dealerships and found one that gave me a $2000 discount!". Doing a quick search on reddit for "dealer markups" in the past 6 months turns up plenty of anecdotes of people being able to secure cars with no or very little dealer markups.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zeroonetwothree 3y ago

sarchertech 3y ago

Minivans are a special case that's not a good example. Minivan's have been drastically dropping in popularity (as defined by market share)for the last 20 years. Many models have been discontinued, and remaining models are being made in much lower quantity. It's basically a very niche product at this point at somewhere around 2% of all new vehicles sold. Now there are only really 5 models of minivan left, so any small jump in purchasing, or misforecasts by a manufacturer leads to huge backlogs.

88913527 3y ago

Paying for rideshare and waiting for delivery is cheaper than paying the $10k markup for the drive-off-the-lot-today option.