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I don't know how most people are doing it. For me it's because the asset bubble has inflated my stock income. I suspect a lot of folks who owned homes, stocks

I don't know how most people are doing it. For me it's because the asset bubble has inflated my stock income. I suspect a lot of folks who owned homes, stocks and other assets are feeling the wealth effect. For the rest of society, I don't know why they're not in the streets with pitchforks.

Geee 3y ago
"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford
- 542458 3y ago
  Not an actual Henry Ford quote fwiw. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18247/did-henry-ford-predict-revolution-if-people-understood-the-banking-and-monetary#27316 https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18247/did-henry...
  - eurleif 3y ago
    Your link says it's a paraphrase rather than an exact quote. It still represents his sentiment accurately. But quoting Henry Ford, particularly his views on nefarious bankers, is a pretty questionable choice considering what he had to say about Jews.
    - spiderice 3y ago
      This is a logical fallacy. His view on Jews has no effect on whether his statements on nefarious bankers are true. You can quote me saying 1+1=2, even if 2 is my favorite number. Now if he’s being misleading and you have evidence of that, then his feeling toward Jews might explain why he is biased
      - eurleif 3y ago
        You misunderstand the scope of formal fallacies, which only apply to formal arguments. Most arguments aren't formal arguments, and that's ok; they aren't supposed to be. Instead of proving a conclusion from a set of premises, they rely on heuristics to draw probabilistic inferences. In the context of a formal argument, the act of quoting Henry Ford would have been either the fallacy of appeal to authority (if the quote's provenance were meant to demonstrate its veracity), or the fallacy of bare assertion (if it were meant to stand on its own). I didn't invoke those fallacies because I understand that, outside the context of a formal argument, appeal to authority is a reasonable heuristic, rather than a fallacy. There's nothing fallacious about saying, for example: "Most doctors recommend getting vaccinated, so you should probably get vaccinated." In this context, my reply is also not fallacious: it's reasonable to doubt the reasoning ability of a vicious anti-Semite, particularly on the subject of nefarious bankers, which is closely intertwined with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.
        spiderice 3y ago
        > which only apply to formal arguments Um.. sorry.. but this is absolutely false. Logical fallacies apply to all logic. Period. Flawed logic isn't ok just because you're speaking casually.
        eurleif 3y ago
        The "formal" in "formal argument" does not mean "the opposite of casual". Rather, it refers to arguments which take a particular form: those that assume a set of premises, and use formal logical tools to prove a conclusion from those premises. To accuse an argument of containing a formal fallacy means: the tools you tried to use to prove that conclusion from those premises is defective, and you have not actually proven the conclusion. However, proving a conclusion is only one possible thing that an argument may set out to do. Oftentimes, we are more interested in probabilistic evidence than in absolute proof. Thus, an argument which does not prove anything (and which would thus be fallacious if treated as a formal argument) can nonetheless be useful.
      - zeroonetwothree 3y ago
itake 3y ago
> my stock income My investment portfolio profits (or RSU vests or bonuses) never make their way to my checking account. Are people really dipping into their investment accounts to cover living costs? Maybe for home or car purchases?
- paulcole 3y ago
  Your investment portfolio profits will make it into your checking account at some point right? Otherwise why bother? Maybe this person has reached that point.
  - hiddencost 3y ago
    Keep up with inflation until I need to draw the money down during retirement? Dividend investing underperforms the market, and pulling that money into your spending budget typically underperforms inflation.
  - itake 3y ago
    > Otherwise why bother? If I lost my job, then I would definitely use the money for my living costs. Until then, I prefer any bonuses, RSUs, Dividends, and interest stay in my investment account for further compounding.
- maxlamb 3y ago
  Just saw an article about that a few days ago: https://fortune.com/2023/08/09/401k-hardship-distribution-borrow-loan-americans-dipping-into-retirement-fund-credit-card-debt/ https://fortune.com/2023/08/09/401k-hardship-distribution-bo...
  - itake 3y ago
    I see articles like that every one to three months for the last 10 years. I remember in 2010 there was an investigation reporting about how how shocking amount of credit card debt Americans have or etc. I’m sure there is basis in reality, but I think these “X-type of person is having financial issues” blog articles are popular because people identifying with that problem (as small of a number of people that maybe) love sharing and pointing to the article to justify their own troubles. This creates more ad revenue for the producer.
newhotelowner 3y ago
One of the biggest opponent of minimum wage increase are the one who's in that category. 43% of Ohio voters voted against their own interest last week. Majority of them are in lower side of the income.
- CrazyPyroLinux 3y ago
  "lower side of income" != minimum wage
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    "lower side of income" means they are roughly linked to minimum wage. For instance, when I worked at a gas station as a kid, I explicitly got a wage $1 more per hour than minimum wage. Even if it's not so explicitly linked, the implicit link is there on all low end hourly jobs. If a wage goes from significantly above minimum wage to just barely above minimum wage due to a minimum wage change and the employer doesn't raise to match, they are going to have retention and recruitment troubles.
- aapl88889 3y ago
  Minimum wage has no effect on inflation huh?
- gruez 3y ago
  >43% of Ohio voters voted against their own interest last week. Majority of them are in lower side of the income. What makes you think that raising the minimum wage would be in their interest? A comprehensive study[1] that factored in hours worked found that even though average hourly wage increased, hours worked went down, so total pay actually went down. [1] https://www.nber.org/papers/w23532 https://www.nber.org/papers/w23532
  - newhotelowner 3y ago
    Since that study, pretty much all blue states had significant increase in minimum wage. Even in red states, the minimum wage has gone up and yet unemployment is historically low.

Geee 3y ago

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

542458 3y ago
Not an actual Henry Ford quote fwiw. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18247/did-henry-ford-predict-revolution-if-people-understood-the-banking-and-monetary#27316 https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18247/did-henry...
- eurleif 3y ago
  Your link says it's a paraphrase rather than an exact quote. It still represents his sentiment accurately. But quoting Henry Ford, particularly his views on nefarious bankers, is a pretty questionable choice considering what he had to say about Jews.
  - spiderice 3y ago
    This is a logical fallacy. His view on Jews has no effect on whether his statements on nefarious bankers are true. You can quote me saying 1+1=2, even if 2 is my favorite number. Now if he’s being misleading and you have evidence of that, then his feeling toward Jews might explain why he is biased
    - eurleif 3y ago
      You misunderstand the scope of formal fallacies, which only apply to formal arguments. Most arguments aren't formal arguments, and that's ok; they aren't supposed to be. Instead of proving a conclusion from a set of premises, they rely on heuristics to draw probabilistic inferences. In the context of a formal argument, the act of quoting Henry Ford would have been either the fallacy of appeal to authority (if the quote's provenance were meant to demonstrate its veracity), or the fallacy of bare assertion (if it were meant to stand on its own). I didn't invoke those fallacies because I understand that, outside the context of a formal argument, appeal to authority is a reasonable heuristic, rather than a fallacy. There's nothing fallacious about saying, for example: "Most doctors recommend getting vaccinated, so you should probably get vaccinated." In this context, my reply is also not fallacious: it's reasonable to doubt the reasoning ability of a vicious anti-Semite, particularly on the subject of nefarious bankers, which is closely intertwined with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.
      - spiderice 3y ago
        > which only apply to formal arguments Um.. sorry.. but this is absolutely false. Logical fallacies apply to all logic. Period. Flawed logic isn't ok just because you're speaking casually.
        eurleif 3y ago
        The "formal" in "formal argument" does not mean "the opposite of casual". Rather, it refers to arguments which take a particular form: those that assume a set of premises, and use formal logical tools to prove a conclusion from those premises. To accuse an argument of containing a formal fallacy means: the tools you tried to use to prove that conclusion from those premises is defective, and you have not actually proven the conclusion. However, proving a conclusion is only one possible thing that an argument may set out to do. Oftentimes, we are more interested in probabilistic evidence than in absolute proof. Thus, an argument which does not prove anything (and which would thus be fallacious if treated as a formal argument) can nonetheless be useful.
    - zeroonetwothree 3y ago

itake 3y ago

> my stock income My investment portfolio profits (or RSU vests or bonuses) never make their way to my checking account. Are people really dipping into their investment accounts to cover living costs? Maybe for home or car purchases?

paulcole 3y ago
Your investment portfolio profits will make it into your checking account at some point right? Otherwise why bother? Maybe this person has reached that point.
- hiddencost 3y ago
  Keep up with inflation until I need to draw the money down during retirement? Dividend investing underperforms the market, and pulling that money into your spending budget typically underperforms inflation.
- itake 3y ago
  > Otherwise why bother? If I lost my job, then I would definitely use the money for my living costs. Until then, I prefer any bonuses, RSUs, Dividends, and interest stay in my investment account for further compounding.
maxlamb 3y ago
Just saw an article about that a few days ago: https://fortune.com/2023/08/09/401k-hardship-distribution-borrow-loan-americans-dipping-into-retirement-fund-credit-card-debt/ https://fortune.com/2023/08/09/401k-hardship-distribution-bo...
- itake 3y ago
  I see articles like that every one to three months for the last 10 years. I remember in 2010 there was an investigation reporting about how how shocking amount of credit card debt Americans have or etc. I’m sure there is basis in reality, but I think these “X-type of person is having financial issues” blog articles are popular because people identifying with that problem (as small of a number of people that maybe) love sharing and pointing to the article to justify their own troubles. This creates more ad revenue for the producer.

newhotelowner 3y ago

One of the biggest opponent of minimum wage increase are the one who's in that category. 43% of Ohio voters voted against their own interest last week. Majority of them are in lower side of the income.

CrazyPyroLinux 3y ago
"lower side of income" != minimum wage
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  "lower side of income" means they are roughly linked to minimum wage. For instance, when I worked at a gas station as a kid, I explicitly got a wage $1 more per hour than minimum wage. Even if it's not so explicitly linked, the implicit link is there on all low end hourly jobs. If a wage goes from significantly above minimum wage to just barely above minimum wage due to a minimum wage change and the employer doesn't raise to match, they are going to have retention and recruitment troubles.
aapl88889 3y ago
Minimum wage has no effect on inflation huh?
gruez 3y ago
>43% of Ohio voters voted against their own interest last week. Majority of them are in lower side of the income. What makes you think that raising the minimum wage would be in their interest? A comprehensive study[1] that factored in hours worked found that even though average hourly wage increased, hours worked went down, so total pay actually went down. [1] https://www.nber.org/papers/w23532 https://www.nber.org/papers/w23532
- newhotelowner 3y ago
  Since that study, pretty much all blue states had significant increase in minimum wage. Even in red states, the minimum wage has gone up and yet unemployment is historically low.