4 ms·

Yeah maybe, but maybe its helpful to think what the holders of commercial real estate debt do to avoid the catastrophe? Surely, they are not just sitting and wa

by aenis 3y ago

Yeah maybe, but maybe its helpful to think what the holders of commercial real estate debt do to avoid the catastrophe? Surely, they are not just sitting and waiting. The offices are empty. The companies are doing just fine. There need to be external pressures applied to bring people back to the offices, I'd think.

kolbe 3y ago
Sure. They might be commissioning a harvard business professor to write about productivity gains of being in-office. They might lobby for some regulation to force a liability onto companies with remote workers. But what they aren't doing is getting 1000 of the richest people in the world into a room and coordinating a conspiracy to help some corner of the room not go bankrupt.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  Except, She never said any of that. Since the article is in line with what you said, coordination could be through commissioning a Harvard writer, or lobbying, or regulation, either way it isn't explicitly stated. I get the impression that you are arguing against a point of view that you are assuming. This is clearly you, reading (a lot) into what she said, and then reacting to your own pre-formed perceptions of an argument you think she made. Kind of like when people get into internal mental arguments with fictional others, and start talking to themselves. Then getting so wound up they blurt something out of context, or march on the capital.
  - kolbe 3y ago
    The only way in which she anything she said could be consistent with mine is if she used the term "the elites" to mean very specifically "CRE investors." This is a definition she never once even implied, let alone stated.
    - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
      The entire article implied it. It is literally the subject of the article. From the article: >"It’s about real estate" >"Corporate landlords currently hold $1.2 trillion in loans on office towers all over the country" It is being a bit pedantic to argue around what a 'CRE Investor' IS. Who 'owns' versus who has a 'lease' since the 'lease' is still a debt obligation. And you don't have to be specifically a 'CRE Investor', you just need to own or lease a lot of CRE to be impacted. Here is better response from this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37113486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37113486 -> Corporations own a lot of corp-real-estate -> that corp-real-estate is now empty and under-utilized -> this could lead to a corp-real-estate market crash -> SO companies have a 'Motivation' to require people to return to the office to fill those offices. She cited other sources. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/500-billion-office-real-estate-221017310.html?ref=okdoomer.io https://finance.yahoo.com/news/500-billion-office-real-estat... https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1174938708/commercial-real-estate-property-offices-work-from-home-remote-work?ref=okdoomer.io https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1174938708/commercial-real-es... https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/empty-office-buildings-downtown-what-happened-rcna77443?ref=okdoomer.io https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/empty-office-buildi... https://www.npr.org/2023/05/06/1174468821/companies-are-defaulting-on-loan-payments-for-unused-office-buildings?ref=okdoomer.io https://www.npr.org/2023/05/06/1174468821/companies-are-defa...
      - kolbe 3y ago
        If you think statements like "It’s about real estate" are somehow a redefinition of a different term ("the elites") used elsewhere in the document to make it mean something no one else in the world thinks it means, then we have no business even talking to each other. Your opinion of how reading works is so different from mine that it results in us living in two different worlds. I'm sure I'm right when I say this college professor knows how to communicate clearly, and if she had intended for "the elites" to mean "a small subset of elites who have large interest in CRE prices," that she would have found a clearer term, instead of a Marxist-charged one like "the elites," most often used for the purpose of throwing shit in the fan of corporate America, rather than arguing genuine points.

by aenis 3y ago

kolbe 3y ago

Sure. They might be commissioning a harvard business professor to write about productivity gains of being in-office. They might lobby for some regulation to force a liability onto companies with remote workers. But what they aren't doing is getting 1000 of the richest people in the world into a room and coordinating a conspiracy to help some corner of the room not go bankrupt.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
Except, She never said any of that. Since the article is in line with what you said, coordination could be through commissioning a Harvard writer, or lobbying, or regulation, either way it isn't explicitly stated. I get the impression that you are arguing against a point of view that you are assuming. This is clearly you, reading (a lot) into what she said, and then reacting to your own pre-formed perceptions of an argument you think she made. Kind of like when people get into internal mental arguments with fictional others, and start talking to themselves. Then getting so wound up they blurt something out of context, or march on the capital.
- kolbe 3y ago
  The only way in which she anything she said could be consistent with mine is if she used the term "the elites" to mean very specifically "CRE investors." This is a definition she never once even implied, let alone stated.
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    The entire article implied it. It is literally the subject of the article. From the article: >"It’s about real estate" >"Corporate landlords currently hold $1.2 trillion in loans on office towers all over the country" It is being a bit pedantic to argue around what a 'CRE Investor' IS. Who 'owns' versus who has a 'lease' since the 'lease' is still a debt obligation. And you don't have to be specifically a 'CRE Investor', you just need to own or lease a lot of CRE to be impacted. Here is better response from this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37113486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37113486 -> Corporations own a lot of corp-real-estate -> that corp-real-estate is now empty and under-utilized -> this could lead to a corp-real-estate market crash -> SO companies have a 'Motivation' to require people to return to the office to fill those offices. She cited other sources. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/500-billion-office-real-estate-221017310.html?ref=okdoomer.io https://finance.yahoo.com/news/500-billion-office-real-estat... https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1174938708/commercial-real-estate-property-offices-work-from-home-remote-work?ref=okdoomer.io https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1174938708/commercial-real-es... https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/empty-office-buildings-downtown-what-happened-rcna77443?ref=okdoomer.io https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/empty-office-buildi... https://www.npr.org/2023/05/06/1174468821/companies-are-defaulting-on-loan-payments-for-unused-office-buildings?ref=okdoomer.io https://www.npr.org/2023/05/06/1174468821/companies-are-defa...
    - kolbe 3y ago
      If you think statements like "It’s about real estate" are somehow a redefinition of a different term ("the elites") used elsewhere in the document to make it mean something no one else in the world thinks it means, then we have no business even talking to each other. Your opinion of how reading works is so different from mine that it results in us living in two different worlds. I'm sure I'm right when I say this college professor knows how to communicate clearly, and if she had intended for "the elites" to mean "a small subset of elites who have large interest in CRE prices," that she would have found a clearer term, instead of a Marxist-charged one like "the elites," most often used for the purpose of throwing shit in the fan of corporate America, rather than arguing genuine points.