4 ms·

Unions.

by sundaeofshock 3y ago

Unions.

moshun 3y ago
It’s always been the same answer for hundreds of years. Unions and solidarity.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  But don’t you know? We are exceptional. Unions are for the plebs. /s But of course the reality is tech workers are the plebs too, far closer to the median than to capital elite. Treasured illusions die hard. Unions enjoy 71% public support and organizing is federally protected activity. The minority isn’t stopping anyone, they can be safely ignored. (My note: I recognize I will never be obscenely wealthy; it does not appeal to me. The wealthy just try to buy back their soul with charity after leaving a wake of destruction on their journey. I would rather work for autonomy and quality of life for my peers, which if done properly, will lead to a better life for myself)
  - jprete 3y ago
    The perks of FAANG are there, IMO, to pay the employees with a feeling of high-class status. Meanwhile, from an economic-class perspective, engineering is essentially blue-collar - it’s mostly about things and not (directly) about people. It’s a weird dichotomy.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Unions. From my recent experience, unions can't help you keep remote work they way they work here today. I work(ed) at a unionized German company and when management call everyone back to the office after the Covid vaccination was done, it wasn't protested by the unions and everyone sowed up at the office without protest, and remote work was kept as "in case of emergency" perk you can get every now and then if you get approval from your manager beforehand. Unions here only serve the purpose to intervene in case of major force like discrimination, health and safety, layoffs, working hours, overtime, and the negociate mandatory yearly pay increases based on inflation and company profits, not help you keep your desired perk of not commuting to the office as the office is seen as the mandatory place of work by contract, not your home, so physical presence at work part is usually non-negotiable. Actually, unions here are relatively against remote work or at least quiet on the topic, as they assume it'll lead to easier off-shoring in the long run (already happening anyway) and the loss of their jobs , so on-site presence of the workforce is considered as an advantage in convincing the company to keep invested in Germany and not move abroad (generals like seeing their soldiers at work where their money is goes).
- oblio 3y ago
  Is it only a perk if it basically improves family life, social life, mental health for many, reduces expenses but it also reduces pollution, combats climate change, relieves pressure on infrastructure, etc?
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    It is, but German companies and management don't see it that way. Decisions are made top-down without consulting with what the workers actually want because the priority is the company's profits. Plus, the wellbeing of workers in Germany is already considered (at least on paper) to be top notch that mandating remote work for everyone is not considered necessary as "German workers already have it so good". And with German labor loosing competitiveness, unions are relatively toothless when demanding remote work as there's no government mandate to offer that like it is with working hours, parental leave, etc. and the companies often threaten with relocation/off-shoring when they get demands they don't like so the German government is in no rush to pressure them for new social perks. So it's up to you to search for a company that's fully WFH, not wait for your union to solve it for you. Unions can work only when they have teeth.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  They can if they care; New York City’s municipal employee union negotiated just that. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/17/nyregion/adams-remote-work-dc37.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/17/nyregion/adams-remote-wor...
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Municipal and government workers are different, as they can always demand whatever they want because they don't have competition and don't need to turn a profit so you're stuck with them whether you like it or not. What else are you gonna do, get your permit from another country's government? The government's monopoly is the real leverage here.
    - 3y ago
akudha 3y ago
Yup. And electing people to office with at least an iota of conscience. One area the current admin is better than the previous one - labor issues. Not perfect (they screwed the railway workers) but better

Unions.

moshun 3y ago

It’s always been the same answer for hundreds of years. Unions and solidarity.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
But don’t you know? We are exceptional. Unions are for the plebs. /s But of course the reality is tech workers are the plebs too, far closer to the median than to capital elite. Treasured illusions die hard. Unions enjoy 71% public support and organizing is federally protected activity. The minority isn’t stopping anyone, they can be safely ignored. (My note: I recognize I will never be obscenely wealthy; it does not appeal to me. The wealthy just try to buy back their soul with charity after leaving a wake of destruction on their journey. I would rather work for autonomy and quality of life for my peers, which if done properly, will lead to a better life for myself)
- jprete 3y ago
  The perks of FAANG are there, IMO, to pay the employees with a feeling of high-class status. Meanwhile, from an economic-class perspective, engineering is essentially blue-collar - it’s mostly about things and not (directly) about people. It’s a weird dichotomy.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>Unions. From my recent experience, unions can't help you keep remote work they way they work here today. I work(ed) at a unionized German company and when management call everyone back to the office after the Covid vaccination was done, it wasn't protested by the unions and everyone sowed up at the office without protest, and remote work was kept as "in case of emergency" perk you can get every now and then if you get approval from your manager beforehand. Unions here only serve the purpose to intervene in case of major force like discrimination, health and safety, layoffs, working hours, overtime, and the negociate mandatory yearly pay increases based on inflation and company profits, not help you keep your desired perk of not commuting to the office as the office is seen as the mandatory place of work by contract, not your home, so physical presence at work part is usually non-negotiable. Actually, unions here are relatively against remote work or at least quiet on the topic, as they assume it'll lead to easier off-shoring in the long run (already happening anyway) and the loss of their jobs , so on-site presence of the workforce is considered as an advantage in convincing the company to keep invested in Germany and not move abroad (generals like seeing their soldiers at work where their money is goes).

oblio 3y ago
Is it only a perk if it basically improves family life, social life, mental health for many, reduces expenses but it also reduces pollution, combats climate change, relieves pressure on infrastructure, etc?
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  It is, but German companies and management don't see it that way. Decisions are made top-down without consulting with what the workers actually want because the priority is the company's profits. Plus, the wellbeing of workers in Germany is already considered (at least on paper) to be top notch that mandating remote work for everyone is not considered necessary as "German workers already have it so good". And with German labor loosing competitiveness, unions are relatively toothless when demanding remote work as there's no government mandate to offer that like it is with working hours, parental leave, etc. and the companies often threaten with relocation/off-shoring when they get demands they don't like so the German government is in no rush to pressure them for new social perks. So it's up to you to search for a company that's fully WFH, not wait for your union to solve it for you. Unions can work only when they have teeth.
bobthepanda 3y ago
They can if they care; New York City’s municipal employee union negotiated just that. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/17/nyregion/adams-remote-work-dc37.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/17/nyregion/adams-remote-wor...
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Municipal and government workers are different, as they can always demand whatever they want because they don't have competition and don't need to turn a profit so you're stuck with them whether you like it or not. What else are you gonna do, get your permit from another country's government? The government's monopoly is the real leverage here.
  - 3y ago

akudha 3y ago

Yup. And electing people to office with at least an iota of conscience. One area the current admin is better than the previous one - labor issues. Not perfect (they screwed the railway workers) but better