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This is a shallow treatment of a complicated subject. It doesn't seem to acknowledge that the concept of growth mindset has been challenged, somewhat successful

This is a shallow treatment of a complicated subject. It doesn't seem to acknowledge that the concept of growth mindset has been challenged, somewhat successfully. [1] It does not seem to have a large effect in the aggregate, according to most meta-analyses. Also, the largest positive effect seems to be for students who are struggling (not surprisingly), which means that perhaps it actually has a net negative effect for students who are not struggling. And there are benefits to praising students for ability when they have unique abilities — this can lead them to feel that they want to cultivate those abilities. 1: https://www.edweek.org/education/opinion-misinterpreting-the-growth-mindset-why-were-doing-students-a-disservice/2017/06 https://www.edweek.org/education/opinion-misinterpreting-the...

asddubs 3y ago
That's an interesting point, I guess the whole thing is rooted in not wanting to communicate to kids that their success is the result of innate, immutable talent. But if the kid didn't actually work hard, and you praise their hard work, you're still kind of communicating that.
- deleted 3y ago
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lyapunova 3y ago
You are completely right about this being a shallow treatment of a complicated subject. There are many different functions the concept of the "growth mindset" serve. Unfortunately, we do not differentiate between them, which as you pointed out can make quite challenging to even discuss. For example, the OpEd by Hattie you linked is also a fairly undeveloped exploration of what we are really getting at when we discuss the growth mindset. On one hand, for example, it is a way to help children cope with psychological struggle. On the other hand, it is a paradigm by which we live and fit into societal hierarchical structures. I would argue that although having a fixed mindset might be a "tool" to use so that you don't "try too hard and hurt yourself" (which is more or less what Hattie argues), it is a terrible general paradigm to live by as it is fundamentally, a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you are born "dumb" and unable to read, that will always be the case. Obviously this is not how brains work. The reasonable conclusion here is that the growth-mindset is the closer model to reality and the fixed-mindset is a tool to help handle "moments in time".
itronitron 3y ago
Each of my children started hating school once the teachers started talking about the importance of having a 'growth mindset'. Some teachers prefer to moralize rather than teach, and the growth mindset unfortunately gives them the perfect outlet for that.
- jay-anderson 3y ago
  I feel that teachers learning about how their interactions contribute to how young students think and feel about themselves and the subject is important. The teachers directly talking about 'growth mindset' to students seems to work against it. It makes me think of corporate speak. For example 'synergy' is worth thinking about (make sure we're working together effectively and similar), but the when we start talking about finding synergies or improving our synergy, eyes start rolling.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Yes, it is also consistent with the "there is no difference in innate ability between students" that is popular in certain circles (CA Math Framework, looking at you). This allows schools to pretend that they don't need to provide advanced learning for students who are able to move more quickly through material.

asddubs 3y ago

That's an interesting point, I guess the whole thing is rooted in not wanting to communicate to kids that their success is the result of innate, immutable talent. But if the kid didn't actually work hard, and you praise their hard work, you're still kind of communicating that.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

lyapunova 3y ago

You are completely right about this being a shallow treatment of a complicated subject. There are many different functions the concept of the "growth mindset" serve. Unfortunately, we do not differentiate between them, which as you pointed out can make quite challenging to even discuss. For example, the OpEd by Hattie you linked is also a fairly undeveloped exploration of what we are really getting at when we discuss the growth mindset. On one hand, for example, it is a way to help children cope with psychological struggle. On the other hand, it is a paradigm by which we live and fit into societal hierarchical structures. I would argue that although having a fixed mindset might be a "tool" to use so that you don't "try too hard and hurt yourself" (which is more or less what Hattie argues), it is a terrible general paradigm to live by as it is fundamentally, a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you are born "dumb" and unable to read, that will always be the case. Obviously this is not how brains work. The reasonable conclusion here is that the growth-mindset is the closer model to reality and the fixed-mindset is a tool to help handle "moments in time".

itronitron 3y ago

Each of my children started hating school once the teachers started talking about the importance of having a 'growth mindset'. Some teachers prefer to moralize rather than teach, and the growth mindset unfortunately gives them the perfect outlet for that.

jay-anderson 3y ago
I feel that teachers learning about how their interactions contribute to how young students think and feel about themselves and the subject is important. The teachers directly talking about 'growth mindset' to students seems to work against it. It makes me think of corporate speak. For example 'synergy' is worth thinking about (make sure we're working together effectively and similar), but the when we start talking about finding synergies or improving our synergy, eyes start rolling.
gnicholas 3y ago
Yes, it is also consistent with the "there is no difference in innate ability between students" that is popular in certain circles (CA Math Framework, looking at you). This allows schools to pretend that they don't need to provide advanced learning for students who are able to move more quickly through material.