4 ms·

How do you write a "terms of use" for a website?

22 points by gcheong 19y ago

Is it possibly to do without a lawyer? What would it cost to have a lawyer write one? Are there any guides, templates, etc., available that give suggestions on what to cover?

myoung8 19y ago
My best advice is to write it in plain and simple English. A ToS doesn't have to be written in legalese. For a good example (that got an award for being so good), check out BillMonk's ToS and Privacy Policy. They wrote it themselves with the help of a Nolo book (available at your local library) if I remember correctly. If you really want to use legalese, just find a ToS from a website similar to yours and adapt it to your specific needs.
- gcheong 19y ago
  Thanks for the advice! -Greg
steve 19y ago
thanks, I've been wondering about this too. Does the same advice hold for privacy policies?
epi0Bauqu 19y ago
There are a lot of concepts and subtleties that underly a TOS document. However, to get a decent one, all you have to do is pick a big relatively similar Internet site, and copy theirs. Replace their name with yours, and their jurisdictional information with yours (e.g. state names). That's the starting point. Then look at the other big Internet sites, and copy anything you feel is applicable. Then read it slowly. If you don't understand anything, post it here and someone can probably help you understand what it is talking about. If you really want to understand what is going on, I suggest reading this book: http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Commerce-Ronald-J-Mann/dp/0735552363/ http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Commerce-Ronald-J-Mann/dp/0... and the cases and statutes it references. But this is really unnecessary to get something decent. I don't recommend hiring a lawyer. They will either go through basically the same process as described above anyway and then charge you a lot for it. If you have a specific issue with your site, you might want to hire a lawyer to help you draft specific provisions that deal with that issue. But seriously, do you have an issue that facebook/craigslist/ebay/microsoft/amazon/etc. don't?
- vegashacker 19y ago
  But is it legal to copy (parts of) someone else's TOS doc? What about those "pay $20 for a legal document" websites?
  - vegashacker 19y ago
    In my searching I found a Creative Commons'd TOS for Wordpress here: http://photomatt.net/2006/04/05/open-source-legal-docs/ http://photomatt.net/2006/04/05/open-source-legal-docs/ I'm actually in search of a web hosting agreement so I couldn't use this one. I needed to move pretty fast, so I just forked over $29 to these guys: http://contractedge.com/ http://contractedge.com/
  - epi0Bauqu 19y ago
    No one is going to sue you for copying their TOS. And why waste even $20 on something when you know you can get better ones for free? At best, you are out $20; at worst, you copy something from the doc that is really bad but you just don't realize it until it comes back to bite you down the line.
rkabir 19y ago
Interesting that the comments on here (so far) are the exact opposite of Guy Kawasaki's sentiments: http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2007/06/482413_for_lega.html http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2007/06/482413_for_lega.html "You could do less legal work and do it cheaper, but if you ever want to raise venture capital much less go public or get acquired for more than scrap value, this is not the place to save a few thousand bucks. If you're negotiating an investment or a liquidity event, you want someone who worked at Brobeck, Baker & McKenzie, and Wilson, Sonsini, Goodrich & Rosati--as opposed to your uncle the divorce lawyer from Penny, Wise, & Pound Foolish or myinstantincorporation4less.com--not only for her expertise but to show opposing counsel that you're not clueless." Just some more information to think about...
- randallsquared 19y ago
  Those comments of Guy's were about incorporation.
  - RyanGWU82 19y ago
    Actually, those comments were related to all of the legal concerns in Guy's "startup," including incorporation, trademarks, discussion of copyright and liability issues, and drafting a Terms of Use agreement.
- cmars232 19y ago
  Yeah, right, like Truemors is going to go public or get acquired.
petesmithy 19y ago
Sorry rkabir, but I think what Guy's talking about is the legal work that goes into the negotiation of an investment, takeover or IPO. For a bootstrapped start-up, getting a lawyer to write your ToS and Privacy Policy would be wasteful. epi0Bauqu you've nailed it: who's got "an issue that facebook/craigslist/ebay/microsoft/amazon/etc. don't?"
rms 19y ago
For my bootstrapped biotech startup, I paid about $1000 for my terms of service. My terms of service are also the disclaimer, which is important in my industry because there's a serious risk of liability which just isn't much of an issue in web tech.

22 points by gcheong 19y ago

Is it possibly to do without a lawyer? What would it cost to have a lawyer write one? Are there any guides, templates, etc., available that give suggestions on what to cover?

myoung8 19y ago

My best advice is to write it in plain and simple English. A ToS doesn't have to be written in legalese. For a good example (that got an award for being so good), check out BillMonk's ToS and Privacy Policy. They wrote it themselves with the help of a Nolo book (available at your local library) if I remember correctly. If you really want to use legalese, just find a ToS from a website similar to yours and adapt it to your specific needs.

gcheong 19y ago
Thanks for the advice! -Greg

steve 19y ago

thanks, I've been wondering about this too. Does the same advice hold for privacy policies?

epi0Bauqu 19y ago

There are a lot of concepts and subtleties that underly a TOS document. However, to get a decent one, all you have to do is pick a big relatively similar Internet site, and copy theirs. Replace their name with yours, and their jurisdictional information with yours (e.g. state names). That's the starting point. Then look at the other big Internet sites, and copy anything you feel is applicable. Then read it slowly. If you don't understand anything, post it here and someone can probably help you understand what it is talking about. If you really want to understand what is going on, I suggest reading this book: http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Commerce-Ronald-J-Mann/dp/0735552363/ http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Commerce-Ronald-J-Mann/dp/0... and the cases and statutes it references. But this is really unnecessary to get something decent. I don't recommend hiring a lawyer. They will either go through basically the same process as described above anyway and then charge you a lot for it. If you have a specific issue with your site, you might want to hire a lawyer to help you draft specific provisions that deal with that issue. But seriously, do you have an issue that facebook/craigslist/ebay/microsoft/amazon/etc. don't?

vegashacker 19y ago
But is it legal to copy (parts of) someone else's TOS doc? What about those "pay $20 for a legal document" websites?
- vegashacker 19y ago
  In my searching I found a Creative Commons'd TOS for Wordpress here: http://photomatt.net/2006/04/05/open-source-legal-docs/ http://photomatt.net/2006/04/05/open-source-legal-docs/ I'm actually in search of a web hosting agreement so I couldn't use this one. I needed to move pretty fast, so I just forked over $29 to these guys: http://contractedge.com/ http://contractedge.com/
- epi0Bauqu 19y ago
  No one is going to sue you for copying their TOS. And why waste even $20 on something when you know you can get better ones for free? At best, you are out $20; at worst, you copy something from the doc that is really bad but you just don't realize it until it comes back to bite you down the line.

rkabir 19y ago

Interesting that the comments on here (so far) are the exact opposite of Guy Kawasaki's sentiments: http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2007/06/482413_for_lega.html http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2007/06/482413_for_lega.html "You could do less legal work and do it cheaper, but if you ever want to raise venture capital much less go public or get acquired for more than scrap value, this is not the place to save a few thousand bucks. If you're negotiating an investment or a liquidity event, you want someone who worked at Brobeck, Baker & McKenzie, and Wilson, Sonsini, Goodrich & Rosati--as opposed to your uncle the divorce lawyer from Penny, Wise, & Pound Foolish or myinstantincorporation4less.com--not only for her expertise but to show opposing counsel that you're not clueless." Just some more information to think about...

randallsquared 19y ago
Those comments of Guy's were about incorporation.
- RyanGWU82 19y ago
  Actually, those comments were related to all of the legal concerns in Guy's "startup," including incorporation, trademarks, discussion of copyright and liability issues, and drafting a Terms of Use agreement.
cmars232 19y ago
Yeah, right, like Truemors is going to go public or get acquired.

petesmithy 19y ago

Sorry rkabir, but I think what Guy's talking about is the legal work that goes into the negotiation of an investment, takeover or IPO. For a bootstrapped start-up, getting a lawyer to write your ToS and Privacy Policy would be wasteful. epi0Bauqu you've nailed it: who's got "an issue that facebook/craigslist/ebay/microsoft/amazon/etc. don't?"

rms 19y ago

For my bootstrapped biotech startup, I paid about $1000 for my terms of service. My terms of service are also the disclaimer, which is important in my industry because there's a serious risk of liability which just isn't much of an issue in web tech.