4 ms·

Interesting, I still don't, though I acknowledge perhaps Google has the greater capacity for harm; here's why. Over time, Google absolutely has been in a posit

by jrm4 3y ago

Interesting, I still don't, though I acknowledge perhaps Google has the greater capacity for harm; here's why. Over time, Google absolutely has been in a position to abuse data, and to some extent it has done so -- but honestly, if you compare what they COULD do to what they END UP DOING, they're not doing so bad at all. They mostly self-correct relatively nicely. Microsoft, on the other hand, clearly does the bare minimum. They've had to be dragged kicking and screaming into actually providing a modicum of safety after more-or-less setting the stage for garbage tech security practices.

saiya-jin 3y ago
From my personal and limited view I agree. But to be honest, I don't trust neither, at all, probably forever. MS actively destroyed 1 decent thing I liked about them, their OS. First they tried to make it better and actually succeeded over the years (anybody who went from Windows 95/98 into 2000/XP and realized MS can actually make stable usable modern OS would probably agree, 7 was their best OS for me). And then they went with telemetry on product that really shouldn't have any, in same vein BIOS or drivers shouldn't have any. And despite overall feedback they doubled down with it in 11. No sympathy nor morality there.
- formerly_proven 3y ago
  All of these companies are obviously totally untrustworthy and anyone trying to convince you otherwise is either incredibly naive, stupid or has an ulterior motive.
  - jrm4 3y ago
    "Totally" is just unhelpful. They all have ideas and incentives and motives, and the world hasn't yet collapsed. Yes, watch them carefully, but, e.g. I don't think the world is improved if we just annihilate Google and Microsoft.
- imchillyb 3y ago
  NSLs and FISAs are insidious and powerful tools that the US Federal government utilizes against the populace. Once the government sets about forcing requirements, those two tools ensure that the companies, organizations, or individuals, cannot speak to the requirements or that there was a discussion at all. Never attribute to malice which can be easily attributed to stupidity. Secret courts, and secret squirrel government activities against its own populace are definitely stupid.
  - convolvatron 3y ago
    occams razor points to grift sure there is some dodgy govt stuff going on, but tracking peoples activities and selling it on the open market is pure sleeze
  - logdap 3y ago
    Secret courts aren't an accident. "Whoops my hand slipped and I accidentally drafted thousands of pages of legislation!" No, secret courts are deliberate and malicious. Hanlon's razor is for credulous fools.
Retric 3y ago
What could do with your data to make more money that they aren’t? Sure in theory they could be selling access to anyone’s Gmail account to the highest bidder, but that’s going to lose them money by actively driving their customers away. Google may be actively harmful/evil, but they aren’t stupid.
- fooker 3y ago
  > What could do with your data to make more money that they aren’t? Nice try Sundar Pichai.
  - nkit 3y ago
    Obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/792/ https://xkcd.com/792/
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  Ad targeting based on vector queries of your inbox.
- vkreso 3y ago
  Well, all bad practice will lose money only if such practices get public.
- derefr 3y ago
  Indexing and fingerprinting your browser history locally in Chrome, to generate a set of demographic and special-interest identifier tags, that are then attached to your Google account; where the special-interests are used by Google Ads to personalize the ad auctions, and the demos are used by Google Ads to price your CPMs.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    But isn't that far better than what most competitors would do... Just upload all the data to a server and do ad-targeting there.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
sneak 3y ago
It doesn't matter if the companies abuse the data. Any data they have is available to federal police without a warrant. The federal police are absolutely capable and willing to abuse the data to violate human rights. The out of control intelligence community in the USA are like the agents from The Matrix - they can subvert any otherwise-trustworthy participant in the system. This means none of the participants are trustworthy.

by jrm4 3y ago

saiya-jin 3y ago

From my personal and limited view I agree. But to be honest, I don't trust neither, at all, probably forever. MS actively destroyed 1 decent thing I liked about them, their OS. First they tried to make it better and actually succeeded over the years (anybody who went from Windows 95/98 into 2000/XP and realized MS can actually make stable usable modern OS would probably agree, 7 was their best OS for me). And then they went with telemetry on product that really shouldn't have any, in same vein BIOS or drivers shouldn't have any. And despite overall feedback they doubled down with it in 11. No sympathy nor morality there.

formerly_proven 3y ago
All of these companies are obviously totally untrustworthy and anyone trying to convince you otherwise is either incredibly naive, stupid or has an ulterior motive.
- jrm4 3y ago
  "Totally" is just unhelpful. They all have ideas and incentives and motives, and the world hasn't yet collapsed. Yes, watch them carefully, but, e.g. I don't think the world is improved if we just annihilate Google and Microsoft.
imchillyb 3y ago
NSLs and FISAs are insidious and powerful tools that the US Federal government utilizes against the populace. Once the government sets about forcing requirements, those two tools ensure that the companies, organizations, or individuals, cannot speak to the requirements or that there was a discussion at all. Never attribute to malice which can be easily attributed to stupidity. Secret courts, and secret squirrel government activities against its own populace are definitely stupid.
- convolvatron 3y ago
  occams razor points to grift sure there is some dodgy govt stuff going on, but tracking peoples activities and selling it on the open market is pure sleeze
- logdap 3y ago
  Secret courts aren't an accident. "Whoops my hand slipped and I accidentally drafted thousands of pages of legislation!" No, secret courts are deliberate and malicious. Hanlon's razor is for credulous fools.

Retric 3y ago

What could do with your data to make more money that they aren’t? Sure in theory they could be selling access to anyone’s Gmail account to the highest bidder, but that’s going to lose them money by actively driving their customers away. Google may be actively harmful/evil, but they aren’t stupid.

fooker 3y ago
> What could do with your data to make more money that they aren’t? Nice try Sundar Pichai.
- nkit 3y ago
  Obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/792/ https://xkcd.com/792/
jncfhnb 3y ago
Ad targeting based on vector queries of your inbox.
vkreso 3y ago
Well, all bad practice will lose money only if such practices get public.
derefr 3y ago
Indexing and fingerprinting your browser history locally in Chrome, to generate a set of demographic and special-interest identifier tags, that are then attached to your Google account; where the special-interests are used by Google Ads to personalize the ad auctions, and the demos are used by Google Ads to price your CPMs.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  But isn't that far better than what most competitors would do... Just upload all the data to a server and do ad-targeting there.
- londons_explore 3y ago

sneak 3y ago

It doesn't matter if the companies abuse the data. Any data they have is available to federal police without a warrant. The federal police are absolutely capable and willing to abuse the data to violate human rights. The out of control intelligence community in the USA are like the agents from The Matrix - they can subvert any otherwise-trustworthy participant in the system. This means none of the participants are trustworthy.