4 ms·

It's very simple: Chinese and Japanese people do not like people who don't look like them. Were you trying to bait someone into saying that? I'll say it because

by skulk 3y ago

It's very simple: Chinese and Japanese people do not like people who don't look like them. Were you trying to bait someone into saying that? I'll say it because I have been told by natives of both that it's true. Here in the US, we consider that to be a base instinct and try to suppress it.

rayiner 3y ago
[flagged]
- tptacek 3y ago
  Racism is bad. It's not a cultural quirk that needs to be respected.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    Are you mixing up race and culture/nationality as a rhetorical device, or because you genuinely cannot understand the difference?
    - tptacek 3y ago
      How about the third option, that the distinction doesn't matter, and that xenophobia is bad and doesn't need to be respected? Regardless: the issue with immigration in China and Japan is racism.
      - rayiner 3y ago
        The distinction does matter. Racism is wrong because race is without substance. Your genetics don’t determine anything about you that would matter to people living around you. Everything else is fair game. Having people in your community who don’t share your language, or your cultural context, etc., makes your life more difficult. Those difficulties are what cause Japanese and Chinese people frustration even with foreign-born Japanese and Chinese people. (Which is why you can’t chalk it up to “racism.”) Moreover, that sentiment is not limited to China and Japan. Indians, Bangladeshis, etc., don’t want mass immigration either. It’s not as much of a political issue in this countries because those countries don’t have inverted population pyramids. I suspect most people in the Middle East or Africa would feel the same way if immigration were a major phenomenon in those places. Now you can say “the rest of the world is just wrong” but you’re going to need more than that ipse dixit.
        tptacek 3y ago
        I am not required to take seriously the concern that people who "don't share your language" "make life more difficult". Coping with, and eventually prospering from the complexities of other people is part of building a western-style free society. If this is an elaborate rhetorical ploy to get me to say that American culture is superior to that of the rest of the world in this regard, you needn't have been so coy, because I'm happy to come out and say it. You can decode a lot of our political differences to my lack of contempt for American culture and civic values.
        rayiner 3y ago
        > I am not required to take seriously the concern that people who "don't share your language" "make life more difficult". Of course you are. It’s a social problem that is so recurrent that it’s literally in the Bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel. Disunity and a diversity of languages was God’s punishment for humanity’s hubris. > Coping with, and eventually prospering from the complexities of other people is part of building a western-style free society. This is an empty assertion. How does “coping” with “complexity” result in “profit?” Does America seem to you like a country that’s on a good track as a result of the “complexity” caused by immigration? > If this is an elaborate rhetorical ploy to get me to say that American culture is superior to that of the rest of the world in this regard, you needn't have been so coy, because I'm happy to come out and say it. I get you think American culture is better. I’m blown away that you think the American approach is a moral imperative. > You can decode a lot of our political differences to my lack of contempt for American culture and civic values. My contempt is for the version of American culture that was manufactured in the 20th century to create a moral justification for globalization. That certainly wasn’t the sentiment of the framers, who rooted their theory of society and government in the history and tradition of the English. Even though the founding documents tackle cultural diversity as a matter of necessity—among different subgroups of English-you don’t see that “complexity” being framed as a positive thing. I think the “culture and civic values” you’re referring to reflects a minority of Americans even today. Of course, half the country voted for Donald Trump. Among the other half, there are many who prefer to live in cultural enclaves. Bangladeshis in Queens aren’t thinking that what their blocks need is more non-Bangladeshis. By contrast, what is a fundamental American civic value is self governance. And mass immigration fatally jeopardizes that. You can’t have real, bottom-up democracy where large swaths of the population lack generational experience in democracy, or are insecurely rooted in this country and will vote for whoever promises them support and services. That’s a recipe for oligarchy.
ddd00001 3y ago
Suppressing bad instincts is good and all, but don't overdo it. Central American farmers are not interchangeable for Chinese physicists. It's really amusing how much of leftism relies on discredited 1960's blank slate ideology.

by skulk 3y ago

rayiner 3y ago

[flagged]

tptacek 3y ago
Racism is bad. It's not a cultural quirk that needs to be respected.
- rayiner 3y ago
  Are you mixing up race and culture/nationality as a rhetorical device, or because you genuinely cannot understand the difference?
  - tptacek 3y ago
    How about the third option, that the distinction doesn't matter, and that xenophobia is bad and doesn't need to be respected? Regardless: the issue with immigration in China and Japan is racism.
    - rayiner 3y ago
      The distinction does matter. Racism is wrong because race is without substance. Your genetics don’t determine anything about you that would matter to people living around you. Everything else is fair game. Having people in your community who don’t share your language, or your cultural context, etc., makes your life more difficult. Those difficulties are what cause Japanese and Chinese people frustration even with foreign-born Japanese and Chinese people. (Which is why you can’t chalk it up to “racism.”) Moreover, that sentiment is not limited to China and Japan. Indians, Bangladeshis, etc., don’t want mass immigration either. It’s not as much of a political issue in this countries because those countries don’t have inverted population pyramids. I suspect most people in the Middle East or Africa would feel the same way if immigration were a major phenomenon in those places. Now you can say “the rest of the world is just wrong” but you’re going to need more than that ipse dixit.
      - tptacek 3y ago
        I am not required to take seriously the concern that people who "don't share your language" "make life more difficult". Coping with, and eventually prospering from the complexities of other people is part of building a western-style free society. If this is an elaborate rhetorical ploy to get me to say that American culture is superior to that of the rest of the world in this regard, you needn't have been so coy, because I'm happy to come out and say it. You can decode a lot of our political differences to my lack of contempt for American culture and civic values.
        rayiner 3y ago
        > I am not required to take seriously the concern that people who "don't share your language" "make life more difficult". Of course you are. It’s a social problem that is so recurrent that it’s literally in the Bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel. Disunity and a diversity of languages was God’s punishment for humanity’s hubris. > Coping with, and eventually prospering from the complexities of other people is part of building a western-style free society. This is an empty assertion. How does “coping” with “complexity” result in “profit?” Does America seem to you like a country that’s on a good track as a result of the “complexity” caused by immigration? > If this is an elaborate rhetorical ploy to get me to say that American culture is superior to that of the rest of the world in this regard, you needn't have been so coy, because I'm happy to come out and say it. I get you think American culture is better. I’m blown away that you think the American approach is a moral imperative. > You can decode a lot of our political differences to my lack of contempt for American culture and civic values. My contempt is for the version of American culture that was manufactured in the 20th century to create a moral justification for globalization. That certainly wasn’t the sentiment of the framers, who rooted their theory of society and government in the history and tradition of the English. Even though the founding documents tackle cultural diversity as a matter of necessity—among different subgroups of English-you don’t see that “complexity” being framed as a positive thing. I think the “culture and civic values” you’re referring to reflects a minority of Americans even today. Of course, half the country voted for Donald Trump. Among the other half, there are many who prefer to live in cultural enclaves. Bangladeshis in Queens aren’t thinking that what their blocks need is more non-Bangladeshis. By contrast, what is a fundamental American civic value is self governance. And mass immigration fatally jeopardizes that. You can’t have real, bottom-up democracy where large swaths of the population lack generational experience in democracy, or are insecurely rooted in this country and will vote for whoever promises them support and services. That’s a recipe for oligarchy.

ddd00001 3y ago

Suppressing bad instincts is good and all, but don't overdo it. Central American farmers are not interchangeable for Chinese physicists. It's really amusing how much of leftism relies on discredited 1960's blank slate ideology.