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That's all good in theory and all, but we all know that the #1 step of most humans is to type a search into Google, and that Humans refuse to look at anything o

That's all good in theory and all, but we all know that the #1 step of most humans is to type a search into Google, and that Humans refuse to look at anything outside the top page of hits (maybe the first ~5 entries). The name of the game, if you're trying to serve humans, is to get to the top ~5 entries on Google.

Zambyte 3y ago
My website is https://robbyzambito.me https://robbyzambito.me. Did you discover that from Google? Did you refuse to look at that link because it wasn't presented as a top 5 hit on Google? Are you not human? My point is that information can be propagated outside of search engines very easily. Every link on Hacker News is presented to you outside of a search engine. Optimize for humans. Tell humans that you made something. If Google doesn't want to service their users, that's not a problem you should work on fixing.
- dragontamer 3y ago
  Are you seriously suggesting that manual word of mouth marketing over niche forums has the same reach as hitting the top 5 hits on Google through Search Engine Optimization?
  - Zambyte 3y ago
    No. I'm arguing that "reach" is not something you should strive for. Quality is.
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      That's all well and all, but CNET is an advertising supported website, so "reach" is its revenue stream.
      - Zambyte 3y ago
        Okay. And do you think that's a good thing?
    - mattmanser 3y ago
      Seriously, stop and think about what you're saying. These are companies looking to make money to pay staff. Not die on a hill of what they wish reality was, rather than what reality actually is.
      - DragonStrength 3y ago
        Seriously, stop and re-read the above. You think the current incentives are natural and we must accept this? No one is telling any individual company to do a specific thing in a vacuum. The suggestion is we re-shape the incentives we have created as an industry and society. It's about values, and we should bucket the discussion because the current batch of MBAs in charge at these companies, who will likely all be gone in 18 months no matter what, are focused on the immediate? Come on. That's not how anyone should determine what their values are.
        mattmanser 3y ago
        I've re-read it. There's no sign of that suggestion in this thread. The GP was talking about today, and has never mentioned huge sweeping policy changes from multiple governments around the world to make Google's business model obsolete.
        pessimizer 3y ago
        When did the conversation turn to nature?
    - scrollaway 3y ago
      If I were to elect you to be the new CEO of CNET tomorrow, what would be your action plan? Because so far it’s not very promising, and “just let the company die” is not a strategy people are going to implement.
      - Zambyte 3y ago
        I would leave, because I do not want to be the CEO of CNET.
        scrollaway 3y ago
        "Strive for quality!" "Okay, how?" "You'll figure it out. Bye!"
        Zambyte 3y ago
        No, they won't figure it out. That's why I'd leave. I believe quality is incompatible with the size of their "target audience". You cannot make everyone happy.
- snowwrestler 3y ago
  Ah yes, HN would be so much better if every company on Earth constantly posted links to their sites in comment threads. Information can and does get propagated outside of search engines very easily. That’s the premise of huge industries like email marketing, social media, banner ads, and PR. Are these marketing channels universally beloved by humans? Not exactly.
  - Zambyte 3y ago
    I don't know why you think anyone suggested every company on Earth should post links to their sites in comment threads. I am not every company on Earth. I am me. My comment was meant to demonstrate me talking as me. Not as anyone else. I think the disconnect here is that you are assuming everything should scale infinitely. Ie: if one company posts, every company should post. If one company sends out spam emails, every company should send out spam emails. If one company tries to make their website #1 on Google for a given search, every company should do the same. My whole point about talking to your target audience was meant to directly contradict this. Your target audience can only be a finite set of people, because you can only talk to a finite set of people. Otherwise, you're just producing noise and hoping someone will listen to it.
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      Coming in with a discussion about CNET and then talking about your own personal website seems... misguided? I don't know if CNET is making the right call here. But I can at least understand the logic and thought process they went through, however misguided it appears.
    - snowwrestler 3y ago
      The point of the joke is that what works for you, won’t work for companies. Different goals, different reactions. The irony to this whole thread is that CNET is actually highly targeted about their audience development, which is how they decided which content to prune in the first place.
      - Zambyte 3y ago

Zambyte 3y ago

My website is https://robbyzambito.me https://robbyzambito.me. Did you discover that from Google? Did you refuse to look at that link because it wasn't presented as a top 5 hit on Google? Are you not human? My point is that information can be propagated outside of search engines very easily. Every link on Hacker News is presented to you outside of a search engine. Optimize for humans. Tell humans that you made something. If Google doesn't want to service their users, that's not a problem you should work on fixing.

dragontamer 3y ago
Are you seriously suggesting that manual word of mouth marketing over niche forums has the same reach as hitting the top 5 hits on Google through Search Engine Optimization?
- Zambyte 3y ago
  No. I'm arguing that "reach" is not something you should strive for. Quality is.
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    That's all well and all, but CNET is an advertising supported website, so "reach" is its revenue stream.
    - Zambyte 3y ago
      Okay. And do you think that's a good thing?
  - mattmanser 3y ago
    Seriously, stop and think about what you're saying. These are companies looking to make money to pay staff. Not die on a hill of what they wish reality was, rather than what reality actually is.
    - DragonStrength 3y ago
      Seriously, stop and re-read the above. You think the current incentives are natural and we must accept this? No one is telling any individual company to do a specific thing in a vacuum. The suggestion is we re-shape the incentives we have created as an industry and society. It's about values, and we should bucket the discussion because the current batch of MBAs in charge at these companies, who will likely all be gone in 18 months no matter what, are focused on the immediate? Come on. That's not how anyone should determine what their values are.
      - mattmanser 3y ago
        I've re-read it. There's no sign of that suggestion in this thread. The GP was talking about today, and has never mentioned huge sweeping policy changes from multiple governments around the world to make Google's business model obsolete.
      - pessimizer 3y ago
        When did the conversation turn to nature?
  - scrollaway 3y ago
    If I were to elect you to be the new CEO of CNET tomorrow, what would be your action plan? Because so far it’s not very promising, and “just let the company die” is not a strategy people are going to implement.
    - Zambyte 3y ago
      I would leave, because I do not want to be the CEO of CNET.
      - scrollaway 3y ago
        "Strive for quality!" "Okay, how?" "You'll figure it out. Bye!"
        Zambyte 3y ago
        No, they won't figure it out. That's why I'd leave. I believe quality is incompatible with the size of their "target audience". You cannot make everyone happy.
snowwrestler 3y ago
Ah yes, HN would be so much better if every company on Earth constantly posted links to their sites in comment threads. Information can and does get propagated outside of search engines very easily. That’s the premise of huge industries like email marketing, social media, banner ads, and PR. Are these marketing channels universally beloved by humans? Not exactly.
- Zambyte 3y ago
  I don't know why you think anyone suggested every company on Earth should post links to their sites in comment threads. I am not every company on Earth. I am me. My comment was meant to demonstrate me talking as me. Not as anyone else. I think the disconnect here is that you are assuming everything should scale infinitely. Ie: if one company posts, every company should post. If one company sends out spam emails, every company should send out spam emails. If one company tries to make their website #1 on Google for a given search, every company should do the same. My whole point about talking to your target audience was meant to directly contradict this. Your target audience can only be a finite set of people, because you can only talk to a finite set of people. Otherwise, you're just producing noise and hoping someone will listen to it.
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    Coming in with a discussion about CNET and then talking about your own personal website seems... misguided? I don't know if CNET is making the right call here. But I can at least understand the logic and thought process they went through, however misguided it appears.
  - snowwrestler 3y ago
    The point of the joke is that what works for you, won’t work for companies. Different goals, different reactions. The irony to this whole thread is that CNET is actually highly targeted about their audience development, which is how they decided which content to prune in the first place.
    - Zambyte 3y ago