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Ask the market and hence the aggregate consumer, which deemed it to be acceptable. MacBook sales outnumber that of the framework by several orders of magnitude.

Ask the market and hence the aggregate consumer, which deemed it to be acceptable. MacBook sales outnumber that of the framework by several orders of magnitude. Turns out that people don’t really want a very large, comparatively flimsy Lego piece laptop with a lesser display, trackpad, battery, etc. and also costs about the same amount. are you also surprised the average person does not want a phone with a plastic back and removable battery?

adriancr 3y ago
Other laptop sales outnumber macbook by several orders of magnitude. So if you base your argument on that I would say aggregate consumer doesn't care that much about apple either. I was arguing on moral grounds, it's immoral to create so much waste and I hope Apple gets forced by EU to change direction as their target customers won't care. Consumers also didn't care about standardization, yet usb-c now is uniquous and it's great... so perhaps what they care and what's better for all of us aren't the same
- alphanullmeric 3y ago
  By manufacturer, nobody comes close to outsellling Apple by an order of magnitude, let alone several. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_share_of_personal_computer_vendors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_share_of_personal_com... By laptop, the numbers are likely even less in your favour since Apple only has a few models. So no, the average consumer agrees with me and not you. It’s immoral for anyone to create waste, so perhaps supposed environmental fines should be directly proportional to damage and not some specific penalty to a specific entity. I find that people that support such policies generally do so in a way so that they themselves are excluded from the laws they apply to others.
  - adriancr 3y ago
    > By manufacturer, nobody comes close to outsellling Apple by an order of magnitude, let alone several. Fine, I was wrong, a single order of magnitude between apple and everyone else, not several, I still thought apple had 2% of the market instead of 10% now. So average consumer... hell... 90% of the consumers don't buy apple. https://www.statista.com/statistics/273495/global-shipments-of-personal-computers-since-2006/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/273495/global-shipments-... "2022, approximately 286 million PCs were shipped around the world" Where apple had: 26 million Mac and MacBook units were sold in 2022 > It’s immoral for anyone to create waste I'm happy you share the same view. > so perhaps supposed environmental fines should be directly proportional to damage Apple consumers have proven they don't care about money spent on products, so this would not have any effect. (doubt anyone would notice 100-200$ more on price...) Best to not have the damage in the first place and force them to come up with better products. (so in essence, force them to use the tax you proposed into designing a better product)

adriancr 3y ago

Other laptop sales outnumber macbook by several orders of magnitude. So if you base your argument on that I would say aggregate consumer doesn't care that much about apple either. I was arguing on moral grounds, it's immoral to create so much waste and I hope Apple gets forced by EU to change direction as their target customers won't care. Consumers also didn't care about standardization, yet usb-c now is uniquous and it's great... so perhaps what they care and what's better for all of us aren't the same

alphanullmeric 3y ago
By manufacturer, nobody comes close to outsellling Apple by an order of magnitude, let alone several. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_share_of_personal_computer_vendors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_share_of_personal_com... By laptop, the numbers are likely even less in your favour since Apple only has a few models. So no, the average consumer agrees with me and not you. It’s immoral for anyone to create waste, so perhaps supposed environmental fines should be directly proportional to damage and not some specific penalty to a specific entity. I find that people that support such policies generally do so in a way so that they themselves are excluded from the laws they apply to others.
- adriancr 3y ago
  > By manufacturer, nobody comes close to outsellling Apple by an order of magnitude, let alone several. Fine, I was wrong, a single order of magnitude between apple and everyone else, not several, I still thought apple had 2% of the market instead of 10% now. So average consumer... hell... 90% of the consumers don't buy apple. https://www.statista.com/statistics/273495/global-shipments-of-personal-computers-since-2006/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/273495/global-shipments-... "2022, approximately 286 million PCs were shipped around the world" Where apple had: 26 million Mac and MacBook units were sold in 2022 > It’s immoral for anyone to create waste I'm happy you share the same view. > so perhaps supposed environmental fines should be directly proportional to damage Apple consumers have proven they don't care about money spent on products, so this would not have any effect. (doubt anyone would notice 100-200$ more on price...) Best to not have the damage in the first place and force them to come up with better products. (so in essence, force them to use the tax you proposed into designing a better product)