> Maybe your objection to physical punishment isn't "it is too harsh a punishment for refusing to clean up" but instead "I don't think it will work"? Definitel

> Maybe your objection to physical punishment isn't "it is too harsh a punishment for refusing to clean up" but instead "I don't think it will work"? Definitely both. I believe that it's ineffective, but even if it was effective I wouldn't be inclined to use it. I feel like punishment in general is thought of as a very one dimensional thing, but in reality people have much more complex motivations. You kind of get at that with "it's usually something like not being willing to help them start something new until they have cleaned up what they were already working on". It's not really punishment, but it's still a motivator for them to do the task. I feel like you can teach kids the general pattern like you mentioned without "punishing" them per se.