6 ms·

Rust is your "last language". It's good for writing Python native modules, PostgreSQL native modules, compiling to WASM, all using the same libraries you love a

by k_bx 3y ago

Rust is your "last language". It's good for writing Python native modules, PostgreSQL native modules, compiling to WASM, all using the same libraries you love and know already. That is a big deal for me.

sgt 3y ago
Can do the same with C, and it is still being improved. Safety is IMHO a bit overrated.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Until we finally get liability across the industry, then devs will think twice about shipping CVEs into production.
  - bombolo 3y ago
    Yeah multiple attempts are done to put liability on open source library developers. Terrible idea.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      Great idea, so far computing has been the exception, it is time to join the grow ups in responsibility how software affects the society. Everywhere else people ask for who's responsible when products don't match expectations, or are sold with faulty capabilities, unless the consumer protection laws of the country suck in protecting the citizens.
      - bombolo 3y ago
        Do engineers often download projects from university students and then decide that the university student should get no money and all the jail time if the building falls?
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Those engineers are the one facing the court, as they failed to obey the requirements posed upon them by the legal system when they did their oath for professional title, and signing their name on the project.
        bombolo 3y ago
        You're avoiding my question. Please re-read and reply accordingly.
    - thumbuddy 3y ago
      Lol "dear free laborers your code must be flawless or you will be sued"... Hmmm sooo... About changing my hobbies...
      - sgt 3y ago
        If your code is not flawless, do you retain your honor? Without honor, is your life worth more than say, a Cobalt miner in Congo? I have spoken. /s
        thumbuddy 3y ago
        The value of human life in most places is exceedingly low. In the US if a company kills ya due to an OSHA violation the company pays something like 35,000 to OSHA. I imagine that's more than a Congolese cobalt miner, but when you compare it to the cost of say a car, a house, an education, etc. It's pretty sad out there.
josephg 3y ago
I don’t think a “last language” is something to aspire towards. Even if you mostly write Rust (or whatever), it’s still very useful to know other languages. Learning C will teach you how rust works under the hood, and teach you a lot about FFI systems everywhere. Learning javascript will be a massive help if you do web programming. I’m learning ML at the moment and python for that seems like a hard requirement. If you develop for Apple’s platforms, Swift is important to know. And so on. And most languages just aren’t that hard to learn anyway. If you’re an experienced programmer, learning enough Go to be dangerous is a weekend project. It’s just not that much work.
- k_bx 3y ago
  I'd recommend learning Type Theory (if you need languages – learn HoTT or just read papers on type theory around borrow checking etc.) to understand how Rust type system works, and assembly/LLVM (and again, papers) to understand how it's implemented. Not C. The notion of "last language" that I used is, however, a bit different. It just meant that if you've implemented something in Rust, you won't need to rewrite in C or C++ due to presence of garbage collection or a need to integrate it as a library.
- jenadine 3y ago
  > Learning C will teach you how rust works under the hood How so? Rust don't use C under the hood. (And even in ffi, you should just know the limitations of C to know what you can't do in FFI)
bombolo 3y ago
> It's good for writing Python native modules distributions are going to love your module! /s
- k_bx 3y ago
  They have hard time keeping up with regular python packages, I don't think Rust will make a difference. I just do "pip install uuid-utils" and get a uuidv7 implementation in my Python.
  - bombolo 3y ago
    Nah, pure python are the easiest to package of course. But C ones with an author who knows what he's doing aren't much more painful to package.
- ssokolow 3y ago
  They already need a workflow for it. pyca/cryptography uses Rust for some of its ASN.1 parsing now. There was a huge kerfuffle about it. https://blog.yossarian.net/2021/02/28/Weird-architectures-werent-supported-to-begin-with https://blog.yossarian.net/2021/02/28/Weird-architectures-we...

by k_bx 3y ago

sgt 3y ago

Can do the same with C, and it is still being improved. Safety is IMHO a bit overrated.

pjmlp 3y ago
Until we finally get liability across the industry, then devs will think twice about shipping CVEs into production.
- bombolo 3y ago
  Yeah multiple attempts are done to put liability on open source library developers. Terrible idea.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Great idea, so far computing has been the exception, it is time to join the grow ups in responsibility how software affects the society. Everywhere else people ask for who's responsible when products don't match expectations, or are sold with faulty capabilities, unless the consumer protection laws of the country suck in protecting the citizens.
    - bombolo 3y ago
      Do engineers often download projects from university students and then decide that the university student should get no money and all the jail time if the building falls?
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        Those engineers are the one facing the court, as they failed to obey the requirements posed upon them by the legal system when they did their oath for professional title, and signing their name on the project.
        bombolo 3y ago
        You're avoiding my question. Please re-read and reply accordingly.
  - thumbuddy 3y ago
    Lol "dear free laborers your code must be flawless or you will be sued"... Hmmm sooo... About changing my hobbies...
    - sgt 3y ago
      If your code is not flawless, do you retain your honor? Without honor, is your life worth more than say, a Cobalt miner in Congo? I have spoken. /s
      - thumbuddy 3y ago
        The value of human life in most places is exceedingly low. In the US if a company kills ya due to an OSHA violation the company pays something like 35,000 to OSHA. I imagine that's more than a Congolese cobalt miner, but when you compare it to the cost of say a car, a house, an education, etc. It's pretty sad out there.

josephg 3y ago

I don’t think a “last language” is something to aspire towards. Even if you mostly write Rust (or whatever), it’s still very useful to know other languages. Learning C will teach you how rust works under the hood, and teach you a lot about FFI systems everywhere. Learning javascript will be a massive help if you do web programming. I’m learning ML at the moment and python for that seems like a hard requirement. If you develop for Apple’s platforms, Swift is important to know. And so on. And most languages just aren’t that hard to learn anyway. If you’re an experienced programmer, learning enough Go to be dangerous is a weekend project. It’s just not that much work.

k_bx 3y ago
I'd recommend learning Type Theory (if you need languages – learn HoTT or just read papers on type theory around borrow checking etc.) to understand how Rust type system works, and assembly/LLVM (and again, papers) to understand how it's implemented. Not C. The notion of "last language" that I used is, however, a bit different. It just meant that if you've implemented something in Rust, you won't need to rewrite in C or C++ due to presence of garbage collection or a need to integrate it as a library.
jenadine 3y ago
> Learning C will teach you how rust works under the hood How so? Rust don't use C under the hood. (And even in ffi, you should just know the limitations of C to know what you can't do in FFI)

bombolo 3y ago

> It's good for writing Python native modules distributions are going to love your module! /s

k_bx 3y ago
They have hard time keeping up with regular python packages, I don't think Rust will make a difference. I just do "pip install uuid-utils" and get a uuidv7 implementation in my Python.
- bombolo 3y ago
  Nah, pure python are the easiest to package of course. But C ones with an author who knows what he's doing aren't much more painful to package.
ssokolow 3y ago
They already need a workflow for it. pyca/cryptography uses Rust for some of its ASN.1 parsing now. There was a huge kerfuffle about it. https://blog.yossarian.net/2021/02/28/Weird-architectures-werent-supported-to-begin-with https://blog.yossarian.net/2021/02/28/Weird-architectures-we...