5 ms·

Decent developers can do that in C++

by bombolo 3y ago

seanthemon 3y ago
Decenter developers can do that with a magnetized needle and a steady hand
- dijit 3y ago
  I wonder if there is a name for the idea that the more you earn the lazier you get. Sysadmins used to know a lot but earn pittance compared to “devops” or “SRE”; then those more expensive folks outsourced the majority of their hard work to cloud vendors who charge 5-11x the cost for compute. Developers earn 5-10x more than 15 years ago, yet continue to choose solutions for their own convenience and time saving. Stating that its better for the company if they have to work less. Surely at some point its just your job to consider the entire ecosystem and your contribution to it. Otherwise why are you worth all that money?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - pocketarc 3y ago
    Because they -are- providing value, and because dev resources are limited. If you're a dev, do you think your company would want you to spend 2 weeks on building a new feature, or on "considering the entire ecosystem"? And more than that - if you have a team that only/mostly has web experience, they're going to use Electron, and... what kind of company would want them to stop and go learn native app development, or hire extra people just to get a native app? Note: I fully agree with you, I do feel that as a profession we really have descended into a weird "ship the MVP, ship new features non-stop, forget quality" reality, and I dislike it. I'd love it if everything was resource-thrifty native apps, and dev teams could stop chasing new and shiny things and work on improving their existing apps until they were shiny polished diamonds. I'd love to point to an app and say "see? this is 20 years of development, look at how nice it is, how perfectly thought out everything is, how everything just works flawlessly". But the fact that that's not happening is not because devs are lazy, or not worth their money. It just doesn't make business sense.
    - johnnyworker 3y ago
      > I'd love to point to an app and say "see? this is 20 years of development, look at how nice it is, how perfectly thought out everything is, how everything just works flawlessly". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directory_Opus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directory_Opus
  - ido 3y ago
    I don’t think developers earn 5-10x more than 15 years ago. Assuming you’re using something like $250k as a typical salary (for dev jobs at US tech-hubs) I guarantee you the typical equivalent in 2008 was not $25-50k.
    - dijit 3y ago
      Average income in tech-hub area in 2007 was: $85,355 for "Software Developers"[0] Salary for developers that we discuss on HN seems to be in the region of $250k base, but that's not factoring in TC- which seems to be the bulk of income for the last 5 years. It's not unheard of around here to hear people talking about pulling in half-million if they are ex-FAANG. Which is nearly everybody these days. [0]: source is here: https://www.datamation.com/careers/developer-salary-levels-2004-2009/ https://www.datamation.com/careers/developer-salary-levels-2... based on https://e-janco.com https://e-janco.com
      - ido 3y ago
        I don’t think it’s nearly everybody these days, but that it may seem like that if you happen to be in FAANG-heavy local bubble.
- bombolo 3y ago
  Also, but it's easier in C++ and it consumes 99% less resources.
- edu 3y ago
  Real hackers use C-x M-c M-butterfly https://xkcd.com/378/ https://xkcd.com/378/
tsimionescu 3y ago
Sure, if they're calling into an Electron front-end. Otherwise, each front-end is different so no amount of C++ and dev exeperience is going to take your Android UI calls and transform them into iOS UI calls. So, you'll have to build your own wrappers over each native UI framework to interact with, costing more money.
- bombolo 3y ago
  Ah, you live in a parallel universe which is the same as ours but Qt and other frameworks to do exactly this but without wasting a ton of resources don't exist?
jb1991 3y ago
Decent developers don’t leave comments like this about other developers.
- bombolo 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - psd1 3y ago
    Deflect much?
    - bombolo 3y ago
      Do you have a point to make or are you here just to be angry because you do write code for electron?
- OCASMv2 3y ago
  On the contrary, decent developers should shame shoddy ones every chance they get. Maybe that would keep them from making horrible software that millions of people have to suffer every day.

Decent developers can do that in C++

seanthemon 3y ago

Decenter developers can do that with a magnetized needle and a steady hand

dijit 3y ago
I wonder if there is a name for the idea that the more you earn the lazier you get. Sysadmins used to know a lot but earn pittance compared to “devops” or “SRE”; then those more expensive folks outsourced the majority of their hard work to cloud vendors who charge 5-11x the cost for compute. Developers earn 5-10x more than 15 years ago, yet continue to choose solutions for their own convenience and time saving. Stating that its better for the company if they have to work less. Surely at some point its just your job to consider the entire ecosystem and your contribution to it. Otherwise why are you worth all that money?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- pocketarc 3y ago
  Because they -are- providing value, and because dev resources are limited. If you're a dev, do you think your company would want you to spend 2 weeks on building a new feature, or on "considering the entire ecosystem"? And more than that - if you have a team that only/mostly has web experience, they're going to use Electron, and... what kind of company would want them to stop and go learn native app development, or hire extra people just to get a native app? Note: I fully agree with you, I do feel that as a profession we really have descended into a weird "ship the MVP, ship new features non-stop, forget quality" reality, and I dislike it. I'd love it if everything was resource-thrifty native apps, and dev teams could stop chasing new and shiny things and work on improving their existing apps until they were shiny polished diamonds. I'd love to point to an app and say "see? this is 20 years of development, look at how nice it is, how perfectly thought out everything is, how everything just works flawlessly". But the fact that that's not happening is not because devs are lazy, or not worth their money. It just doesn't make business sense.
  - johnnyworker 3y ago
    > I'd love to point to an app and say "see? this is 20 years of development, look at how nice it is, how perfectly thought out everything is, how everything just works flawlessly". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directory_Opus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directory_Opus
- ido 3y ago
  I don’t think developers earn 5-10x more than 15 years ago. Assuming you’re using something like $250k as a typical salary (for dev jobs at US tech-hubs) I guarantee you the typical equivalent in 2008 was not $25-50k.
  - dijit 3y ago
    Average income in tech-hub area in 2007 was: $85,355 for "Software Developers"[0] Salary for developers that we discuss on HN seems to be in the region of $250k base, but that's not factoring in TC- which seems to be the bulk of income for the last 5 years. It's not unheard of around here to hear people talking about pulling in half-million if they are ex-FAANG. Which is nearly everybody these days. [0]: source is here: https://www.datamation.com/careers/developer-salary-levels-2004-2009/ https://www.datamation.com/careers/developer-salary-levels-2... based on https://e-janco.com https://e-janco.com
    - ido 3y ago
      I don’t think it’s nearly everybody these days, but that it may seem like that if you happen to be in FAANG-heavy local bubble.
bombolo 3y ago
Also, but it's easier in C++ and it consumes 99% less resources.
edu 3y ago
Real hackers use C-x M-c M-butterfly https://xkcd.com/378/ https://xkcd.com/378/

tsimionescu 3y ago

Sure, if they're calling into an Electron front-end. Otherwise, each front-end is different so no amount of C++ and dev exeperience is going to take your Android UI calls and transform them into iOS UI calls. So, you'll have to build your own wrappers over each native UI framework to interact with, costing more money.

bombolo 3y ago
Ah, you live in a parallel universe which is the same as ours but Qt and other frameworks to do exactly this but without wasting a ton of resources don't exist?

jb1991 3y ago

Decent developers don’t leave comments like this about other developers.

bombolo 3y ago
[flagged]
- psd1 3y ago
  Deflect much?
  - bombolo 3y ago
    Do you have a point to make or are you here just to be angry because you do write code for electron?
OCASMv2 3y ago
On the contrary, decent developers should shame shoddy ones every chance they get. Maybe that would keep them from making horrible software that millions of people have to suffer every day.