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Where you are born is a matter of luck, and not just in governance. You can directly correlate success in the US to the zip code you were born into. https://ww

Where you are born is a matter of luck, and not just in governance. You can directly correlate success in the US to the zip code you were born into. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/19/learning/how-much-has-your-zip-code-determined-your-opportunities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/19/learning/how-much-has-you...

WalterBright 3y ago
Fortunately, you can move to whatever zip code you like.
- Niksko 3y ago
  Unfortunately, that's not how it works. a) no you can't just decide to go and live in any postcode you want, you need to be able to afford the cost of living there, and b) the study is about where you're born, not just where you end up.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    > no you can't just decide to go and live in any postcode you want, Yeah, you can. > you need to be able to afford the cost of living there More affluent places hire maids, gardeners, handymen, drivers, etc. The even wealthier ones have places for them to live on the premises. In Seattle, of course, they just pitch a tent on the street or live in their cars. This thread reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0q4o58pKwA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0q4o58pKwA
    - acdha 3y ago
      > More affluent places hire maids, gardeners, handymen, drivers, etc. The even wealthier ones have places for them to live on the premises. I’m trying to tell whether this is a serious argument. Yes, the very wealthiest might allow their most trusted servants to live on their estates but that’s like saying that anyone can go to the moon or win an Olympic gold medal because some humans have done it. Most rich people do not do that and those positions are not widely available: for example, the most common would be live-in nannies which often require things like college degrees and the “right” background. The far more common outcome is that most workers commute to those exclusive places and they often have very strong rules (the last time I drive through an expensive area outside of San Diego, it was noticeable how often the roads were blocked by landscapers’ trucks because they weren’t even allowed to park in the dozen car driveways every estate has). It’s not even uncommon to have things like shuttles so they can park where it’s cheaper and not have to drive all of the way in.
- chefandy 3y ago
  Like many people with a libertarian outlook, you don't seem to understand that laws aren't the most limiting factor in most people's lives. Simple economic realities prevent most people from moving to "whatever zip code they want." Every disadvantage seems trivial if you ignore the actual barriers they impart.
  - nickpp 3y ago
    An unwillingness to do whatever is necessary to improve one's station in life correlates with a lack of success in said life, I am afraid. Another easy thing to do to improve your "luck" is vote pro-free-market, pro-business and pro-competition policies in your area. Sadly there is a high correlation (at least where I live) between how poor people are and how leftist they vote...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - chefandy 3y ago
      > An unwillingness to do whatever is necessary to improve one's station in life correlates with a lack of success in said life, I am afraid. An unwillingness to recognize that willpower isn't enough to overcome many, if not most blocks to social mobility in the US correlates with blind support for lazzais fair free market evangelism, I'm afraid.
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        > isn't enough Yes. I listed upthread what was necessary.
    - anon4242 3y ago
      This is ignoring the fact that most people commenting here already won big time in the lottery of life: the family you were born into. If you were born in a family in the wealthiest 10% of the world you have a lot of advantage over the person born in the least wealthy 10%. It's a lot more profound than that you got a game console for X-mas every other year. For instance, does drowning while crossing the Mediterranean sea on a substandard boat not constitute a willingness to do whatever is necessary to improve one's station in life in your view?
- borski 3y ago
  Not if you don’t have the money or time because you’re working three jobs. Or you have kids from a previous divorce and can’t leave the state or you never see them again.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    > Not if you don’t have the money The homeless in Seattle are largely not from Seattle. Somehow they managed to get here. So do the people who come by the millions, walking across the continent to get into the US. In fact, America was populated by poor people coming from Europe. The Titanic's money maker wasn't the first class section, it was steerage. Maybe check out Ellis Island. Chicago was populated by poor people looking for work. The American West was settled with people with no money. > Or you have kids from a previous divorce and can’t leave the state That's the result of choices the person made. I wonder what the schools teach about American history :-/
    - borski 3y ago
      I wonder what the schools teach about economics :-/ Please don’t attempt to educate me on the idea that “poor people can move.” My parents were poor immigrants and moved twice, across two continents, with nothing in their pockets, to try and make a better life. That does not mean they could do that today. The economy has changed. Cost of living has gone up dramatically. There is no more “western frontier” where one can luck out and find gold. It is much much harder to move now than ever before. And that’s before you get to the fact that my parents were here illegally for almost 30 years, but had SSNs, paid taxes, handled all their debt, did not take government handouts/subsidies, never got in trouble, and so on. They were able to do that because paperwork back then was … paper, and they could find people to make it work. Today they’d be deported. With all due respect, your point of view is marred by the fact that you’ve had success. Spend some time actually talking to some poor people, before you start to tell them why they are poor. As for “That's the result of choices the person made,” this is a dumb argument. Condoms break. Abortion is illegal in many states. Divorces happen because of things that are not entirely in someone’s control, even after years of happy marriage (i.e. someone cheats). Full custody is something only courts can grant, not your own choices. If you can’t get it, you can’t leave the state, or you don’t get to see your kid again. That has nothing to do with your choice to get married to the love of your life and have a child with them. The logical conclusion of your argument is “well you can choose to leave your kid behind” which is nonsense. Please consider that your perspective may be biased by not having actually spoken to anyone in the situations you purport to know so much about.

WalterBright 3y ago

Fortunately, you can move to whatever zip code you like.

Niksko 3y ago
Unfortunately, that's not how it works. a) no you can't just decide to go and live in any postcode you want, you need to be able to afford the cost of living there, and b) the study is about where you're born, not just where you end up.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  > no you can't just decide to go and live in any postcode you want, Yeah, you can. > you need to be able to afford the cost of living there More affluent places hire maids, gardeners, handymen, drivers, etc. The even wealthier ones have places for them to live on the premises. In Seattle, of course, they just pitch a tent on the street or live in their cars. This thread reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0q4o58pKwA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0q4o58pKwA
  - acdha 3y ago
    > More affluent places hire maids, gardeners, handymen, drivers, etc. The even wealthier ones have places for them to live on the premises. I’m trying to tell whether this is a serious argument. Yes, the very wealthiest might allow their most trusted servants to live on their estates but that’s like saying that anyone can go to the moon or win an Olympic gold medal because some humans have done it. Most rich people do not do that and those positions are not widely available: for example, the most common would be live-in nannies which often require things like college degrees and the “right” background. The far more common outcome is that most workers commute to those exclusive places and they often have very strong rules (the last time I drive through an expensive area outside of San Diego, it was noticeable how often the roads were blocked by landscapers’ trucks because they weren’t even allowed to park in the dozen car driveways every estate has). It’s not even uncommon to have things like shuttles so they can park where it’s cheaper and not have to drive all of the way in.
chefandy 3y ago
Like many people with a libertarian outlook, you don't seem to understand that laws aren't the most limiting factor in most people's lives. Simple economic realities prevent most people from moving to "whatever zip code they want." Every disadvantage seems trivial if you ignore the actual barriers they impart.
- nickpp 3y ago
  An unwillingness to do whatever is necessary to improve one's station in life correlates with a lack of success in said life, I am afraid. Another easy thing to do to improve your "luck" is vote pro-free-market, pro-business and pro-competition policies in your area. Sadly there is a high correlation (at least where I live) between how poor people are and how leftist they vote...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - chefandy 3y ago
    > An unwillingness to do whatever is necessary to improve one's station in life correlates with a lack of success in said life, I am afraid. An unwillingness to recognize that willpower isn't enough to overcome many, if not most blocks to social mobility in the US correlates with blind support for lazzais fair free market evangelism, I'm afraid.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      > isn't enough Yes. I listed upthread what was necessary.
  - anon4242 3y ago
    This is ignoring the fact that most people commenting here already won big time in the lottery of life: the family you were born into. If you were born in a family in the wealthiest 10% of the world you have a lot of advantage over the person born in the least wealthy 10%. It's a lot more profound than that you got a game console for X-mas every other year. For instance, does drowning while crossing the Mediterranean sea on a substandard boat not constitute a willingness to do whatever is necessary to improve one's station in life in your view?
borski 3y ago
Not if you don’t have the money or time because you’re working three jobs. Or you have kids from a previous divorce and can’t leave the state or you never see them again.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  > Not if you don’t have the money The homeless in Seattle are largely not from Seattle. Somehow they managed to get here. So do the people who come by the millions, walking across the continent to get into the US. In fact, America was populated by poor people coming from Europe. The Titanic's money maker wasn't the first class section, it was steerage. Maybe check out Ellis Island. Chicago was populated by poor people looking for work. The American West was settled with people with no money. > Or you have kids from a previous divorce and can’t leave the state That's the result of choices the person made. I wonder what the schools teach about American history :-/
  - borski 3y ago
    I wonder what the schools teach about economics :-/ Please don’t attempt to educate me on the idea that “poor people can move.” My parents were poor immigrants and moved twice, across two continents, with nothing in their pockets, to try and make a better life. That does not mean they could do that today. The economy has changed. Cost of living has gone up dramatically. There is no more “western frontier” where one can luck out and find gold. It is much much harder to move now than ever before. And that’s before you get to the fact that my parents were here illegally for almost 30 years, but had SSNs, paid taxes, handled all their debt, did not take government handouts/subsidies, never got in trouble, and so on. They were able to do that because paperwork back then was … paper, and they could find people to make it work. Today they’d be deported. With all due respect, your point of view is marred by the fact that you’ve had success. Spend some time actually talking to some poor people, before you start to tell them why they are poor. As for “That's the result of choices the person made,” this is a dumb argument. Condoms break. Abortion is illegal in many states. Divorces happen because of things that are not entirely in someone’s control, even after years of happy marriage (i.e. someone cheats). Full custody is something only courts can grant, not your own choices. If you can’t get it, you can’t leave the state, or you don’t get to see your kid again. That has nothing to do with your choice to get married to the love of your life and have a child with them. The logical conclusion of your argument is “well you can choose to leave your kid behind” which is nonsense. Please consider that your perspective may be biased by not having actually spoken to anyone in the situations you purport to know so much about.