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I think we all have our own aha moments with things like this. I thought like you until I really dug in and set up Home Manager as well. My moment, and maybe th

by pkulak 3y ago

I think we all have our own aha moments with things like this. I thought like you until I really dug in and set up Home Manager as well. My moment, and maybe this means nothing to you, was when I realized I could reference any package in a config file without even “installing” it. So it’s no longer that I have config files in Git somewhere, and then also a list of all the packages I need to install somewhere else; the config files themselves pull in the packages they need by virtue of referencing them. There are a million other things, but that’s when I was like, “Okay, I’m actually gonna do this.”

ibizaman 3y ago
I’m maybe missing something but non-flake nix also pull packages by just referencing them. Right?
- rgoulter 3y ago
  Yes, in Nix code it is possible to refer to arbitrary Nix codebases from Nix code. I'd point to the home-manager installation instructions for an example of Nix flakes having a nicer UX. Running flake-enabled codebases is just much nicer than non-flake codebases. https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/index.html#sec-install-standalone https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/index.html#sec-... https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/index.html#sec-flakes-standalone https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/index.html#sec-... The former involves running `nix-channel --add <...> home-manager && nix-channel --update` in order for `<home-manager>` to mean anything. With the latter, it's simply `nix run home-manager/release-23.05 -- init --switch`. (Albeit, `home-manager` is already registered as an alias for `github:nix-community/home-manager`). One key detail is that `nix-channel --add` modifies the 'system state', whereas running flakes essentially does not. -- Regarding "you can pull in arbitrary Nix code by reference". With flakes, you have a standard entry point where you know the interface it has. Whereas, having a 'default.nix' is a convention, and there's no way to know how a `default.nix` is to be used without reading its source.
sourcegrift 3y ago
I'm familiar with home manager (or as I like to call it, a hammer looking for a nail, that solves no problem). I don't think home manager has any relationship with flakes. Also, nix solves actual real problems, home manager doesn't. There are better dotfile managers. In fact, vim understands the syntaxes of a lot of dotfiles, with home manager, you even lose that.
- colordrops 3y ago
  There are Nix LSP servers now that handle embedded config files. But beyond that, you can always just leave the config in its original format and import it into the Nix config, and not lose your syntax highlighting. Speaking of vim, I've got neovim configured completely with home manager. It references plugins as first-class nix packages, and also any external dependencies like language servers, node packages, parsing tools etc are also managed by Nix. You can reference the deps in the vim config and it will automatically download and point to them in the nix store without even installing them. It's amazing. Everytime I upgrade and building my system, my nvim setup gets upgraded automatically too. No need for a package manager or manual updates.
  - sourcegrift 3y ago
    But I have the exact same setup without the "hammer-searching-for-nail" home manager. (Almost) all of my vim plugins are managed by my nixos config
    - teekert 3y ago
      Which you can presumably only do on a 1 user system right? (I’m just trying to understand, I thought home manager makes more sense on a multi user system, and has some options for more fine grained configuration?
    - chriswarbo 3y ago
      Home Manager is less useful if you're using NixOS. I've found it handy on non-NixOS systems, e.g. my phone; although I'm planning to switch that to NixOS at some point too ;)

by pkulak 3y ago

ibizaman 3y ago

I’m maybe missing something but non-flake nix also pull packages by just referencing them. Right?

rgoulter 3y ago
Yes, in Nix code it is possible to refer to arbitrary Nix codebases from Nix code. I'd point to the home-manager installation instructions for an example of Nix flakes having a nicer UX. Running flake-enabled codebases is just much nicer than non-flake codebases. https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/index.html#sec-install-standalone https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/index.html#sec-... https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/index.html#sec-flakes-standalone https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/index.html#sec-... The former involves running `nix-channel --add <...> home-manager && nix-channel --update` in order for `<home-manager>` to mean anything. With the latter, it's simply `nix run home-manager/release-23.05 -- init --switch`. (Albeit, `home-manager` is already registered as an alias for `github:nix-community/home-manager`). One key detail is that `nix-channel --add` modifies the 'system state', whereas running flakes essentially does not. -- Regarding "you can pull in arbitrary Nix code by reference". With flakes, you have a standard entry point where you know the interface it has. Whereas, having a 'default.nix' is a convention, and there's no way to know how a `default.nix` is to be used without reading its source.

sourcegrift 3y ago

I'm familiar with home manager (or as I like to call it, a hammer looking for a nail, that solves no problem). I don't think home manager has any relationship with flakes. Also, nix solves actual real problems, home manager doesn't. There are better dotfile managers. In fact, vim understands the syntaxes of a lot of dotfiles, with home manager, you even lose that.

colordrops 3y ago
There are Nix LSP servers now that handle embedded config files. But beyond that, you can always just leave the config in its original format and import it into the Nix config, and not lose your syntax highlighting. Speaking of vim, I've got neovim configured completely with home manager. It references plugins as first-class nix packages, and also any external dependencies like language servers, node packages, parsing tools etc are also managed by Nix. You can reference the deps in the vim config and it will automatically download and point to them in the nix store without even installing them. It's amazing. Everytime I upgrade and building my system, my nvim setup gets upgraded automatically too. No need for a package manager or manual updates.
- sourcegrift 3y ago
  But I have the exact same setup without the "hammer-searching-for-nail" home manager. (Almost) all of my vim plugins are managed by my nixos config
  - teekert 3y ago
    Which you can presumably only do on a 1 user system right? (I’m just trying to understand, I thought home manager makes more sense on a multi user system, and has some options for more fine grained configuration?
  - chriswarbo 3y ago
    Home Manager is less useful if you're using NixOS. I've found it handy on non-NixOS systems, e.g. my phone; although I'm planning to switch that to NixOS at some point too ;)