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Orbstack I thought https://orbstack.dev/ https://orbstack.dev/ is what people are using these days instead of UTM. Am I mistaken?

djur 3y ago
It's usually the case that people are using several different competing tools rather than one specific "latest" tool, isn't it?
ago 3y ago
Orbstack does not seem to run Windows.
jemmyw 3y ago
I only use utm to run chrome for testing because when run natively with selenium it steals the window focus all the time. I want the test to run while I'm coding and also see and interact with it.
xpe 3y ago
I don't know, but I reject the premise of the question (i.e. there is a consensus). But I'm no pollster. Speaking for myself, to virtualize arm64 *nix on an M1/M2 Mac, UTM has worked whereas other alternatives didn't work for me (such as VirtualBox). I haven't put my hands on the glowing orb yet; I'm sure it will be mesmerizing and tell me to do things like watch Inception (inside a VM) ^ 4. And Orbstack has a comparison chart with UTM: https://docs.orbstack.dev/compare/utm https://docs.orbstack.dev/compare/utm
- stephenr 3y ago
  FYI vbox isn't meant to run arm-on-arm VMs. The arm release is a "whoops it got out before it's ready" moment, and the current status apart from being buggy and slow, is that it only runs 32bit x86 VMs on arm.
aliasxneo 3y ago
Maybe it's still getting out there? First time seeing it, looks super promising. Thanks for sharing :)
pstadler 3y ago
UTM runs GUI apps, while Orbstack doesn’t. It‘s kind of like VirtualBox vs. Docker Desktop.
- kdrag0n 3y ago
  Good point, definitely makes sense to use UTM if you need GUI apps. It's planned in the long term but in all honesty, I'm more focused on containers at the moment. Also worth mentioning that OrbStack's philosophy to be more like WSL (designed for integration first and foremost, not isolation) than UTM (full virtual machines, isolated from the host).
skowron 3y ago
You are mistaken.
krono 3y ago
Edit: The project does not run on "docker machine" as per the graceful correction by OrbStack's developer below[2]. It's a proprietary container interface that - as far as I could tell - runs on the outdated and unsupported "docker machine"[1]. An alternative would be to run a more recent container runtime of your choosing in a VM through UTM which works beautifully. [1]: https://github.com/docker/machine https://github.com/docker/machine [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37107233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37107233
- kdrag0n 3y ago
  Hey, dev here — not sure what you mean. OrbStack currently ships an official build of Docker Engine 24.0.5, which is the latest version as of writing. Previous versions used Alpine Linux's build. I did intentionally delay the update from 23.x to 24.x by a few weeks while I waited for things to settle, because last time I updated from 22.x to 23.x shortly after release and some users were hit by bugs that hadn't been ironed out yet. Edit: Noticed that you edited your comment to say that it uses "Docker Machine" instead. That's not the case. OrbStack uses a nested architecture where it runs Linux machines [1]. There's a special machine called "docker" that runs a copy of the Docker Engine, but that's not related to the old Docker Machine project. [1] https://docs.orbstack.dev/architecture https://docs.orbstack.dev/architecture
  - krono 3y ago
    I stand corrected! Glad you were here to do so. My confusion must have come from mixed terminology being used by others than yourself on GitHub and in articles about your project I skimmed through when looking into it. The project might still not be for me regardless of its underpinning, although I will have to say that it's immediately obvious that you persue high standards and care a great deal about delivering a quality product.
    - kdrag0n 3y ago
      Makes sense, no worries!
kdrag0n 3y ago
Still a bit newer, but thanks for mentioning OrbStack! Happy to answer questions as the dev.

djur 3y ago

It's usually the case that people are using several different competing tools rather than one specific "latest" tool, isn't it?

ago 3y ago

Orbstack does not seem to run Windows.

jemmyw 3y ago

I only use utm to run chrome for testing because when run natively with selenium it steals the window focus all the time. I want the test to run while I'm coding and also see and interact with it.

xpe 3y ago

I don't know, but I reject the premise of the question (i.e. there is a consensus). But I'm no pollster. Speaking for myself, to virtualize arm64 *nix on an M1/M2 Mac, UTM has worked whereas other alternatives didn't work for me (such as VirtualBox). I haven't put my hands on the glowing orb yet; I'm sure it will be mesmerizing and tell me to do things like watch Inception (inside a VM) ^ 4. And Orbstack has a comparison chart with UTM: https://docs.orbstack.dev/compare/utm https://docs.orbstack.dev/compare/utm

stephenr 3y ago
FYI vbox isn't meant to run arm-on-arm VMs. The arm release is a "whoops it got out before it's ready" moment, and the current status apart from being buggy and slow, is that it only runs 32bit x86 VMs on arm.

aliasxneo 3y ago

Maybe it's still getting out there? First time seeing it, looks super promising. Thanks for sharing :)

pstadler 3y ago

UTM runs GUI apps, while Orbstack doesn’t. It‘s kind of like VirtualBox vs. Docker Desktop.

kdrag0n 3y ago
Good point, definitely makes sense to use UTM if you need GUI apps. It's planned in the long term but in all honesty, I'm more focused on containers at the moment. Also worth mentioning that OrbStack's philosophy to be more like WSL (designed for integration first and foremost, not isolation) than UTM (full virtual machines, isolated from the host).

skowron 3y ago

You are mistaken.

krono 3y ago

Edit: The project does not run on "docker machine" as per the graceful correction by OrbStack's developer below[2]. It's a proprietary container interface that - as far as I could tell - runs on the outdated and unsupported "docker machine"[1]. An alternative would be to run a more recent container runtime of your choosing in a VM through UTM which works beautifully. [1]: https://github.com/docker/machine https://github.com/docker/machine [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37107233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37107233

kdrag0n 3y ago
Hey, dev here — not sure what you mean. OrbStack currently ships an official build of Docker Engine 24.0.5, which is the latest version as of writing. Previous versions used Alpine Linux's build. I did intentionally delay the update from 23.x to 24.x by a few weeks while I waited for things to settle, because last time I updated from 22.x to 23.x shortly after release and some users were hit by bugs that hadn't been ironed out yet. Edit: Noticed that you edited your comment to say that it uses "Docker Machine" instead. That's not the case. OrbStack uses a nested architecture where it runs Linux machines [1]. There's a special machine called "docker" that runs a copy of the Docker Engine, but that's not related to the old Docker Machine project. [1] https://docs.orbstack.dev/architecture https://docs.orbstack.dev/architecture
- krono 3y ago
  I stand corrected! Glad you were here to do so. My confusion must have come from mixed terminology being used by others than yourself on GitHub and in articles about your project I skimmed through when looking into it. The project might still not be for me regardless of its underpinning, although I will have to say that it's immediately obvious that you persue high standards and care a great deal about delivering a quality product.
  - kdrag0n 3y ago
    Makes sense, no worries!

kdrag0n 3y ago

Still a bit newer, but thanks for mentioning OrbStack! Happy to answer questions as the dev.