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Rather than do their job of balancing competing priorities, many of the elected policy makers handed the keys over to a bunch of insane public health officials.

Rather than do their job of balancing competing priorities, many of the elected policy makers handed the keys over to a bunch of insane public health officials. In many places said unelected, unaccountable public health officials had the authority to enact all kinds of crazy crap. That’s why many blue state cities continued to have mask mandates, vaccine mandates and more well into the three year mark. If 2020 taught me anything, it’s that technocracy is a horrible form of government. If “heath-care experts” were given the chance, I fully imagine us still playing covid theater to this day.

manuelabeledo 3y ago
Again, health officials don't make these decisions. They don't have the power. > If 2020 taught me anything, it’s that technocracy is a horrible form of government. If “heath-care experts” were given the chance, I fully imagine us still playing covid theater to this day. You may want to take a look at the mortality rates of the US vs those of other developed nations where the "technocrats", as you call them, were listened to closely. What I see in there is a complete failure of the US as a society, an example of people throwing the most vulnerable under the bus to avoid slight inconveniences like wearing a mask. Regardless, the opposite of this "technocracy" is leaving specialized agencies in the hands of utterly unprepared people, career politicians, businesspeople and lawyers, instead of scientists and engineers. That is just madness.
- mistermann 3y ago
  > people throwing the most vulnerable under the bus to avoid slight inconveniences like wearing a mask. That's one variable. I suspect another is ~revenge, for past transgressions, real or imagined. As the saying goes: "As ye sow, so shall ye reap", and while sayings like this (there are many) is obviously speculative, I suspect there's a lot of truth to it. > Regardless, the opposite of this "technocracy" is leaving specialized agencies in the hands of utterly unprepared people, career politicians, businesspeople and lawyers, instead of scientists and engineers. That is just madness. An alternate approach is that we could collectively pursue optimality, regardless of whether that is outside the current Overton Window of behavior. No obligation, but it is an option if things ever get really bad. This is what so called democracy is advertised as doing, but I suspect that advertising is rather false.
- southernplaces7 3y ago
  Except if you look at COVID mortality by state, there's only partial correlation between the zealousness of mandates and death rates [link below] Also, easing up on measures that never fully clarified their cost-benefit analysis and caused all kinds of real harm while also often descending into the ideologically and theatrically absurd wasn't just about "avoiding slight inconveniences". https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi...
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    Cannot comment on these numbers, other than the fact that they are incomplete. Again, compared to other developed countries, the US had one of the worst outcomes. > Also, easing up on measures that never fully clarified their cost-benefit analysis and caused all kinds of real harm while also often descending into the ideologically and theatrically absurd wasn't just about "avoiding slight inconveniences". I'm waiting for anyone to prove that having to put on a mask was much more disruptive than COVID-19 or death. In HN, "social issues" come up a lot, like kids having to use masks and somehow suffering from "delays" in social learning, which doesn't seem to apply to me, as I have two young kids and they and their friends turned out to be just fine. Funny though, kids seem to bitch less about masks and vaccines than adults.
    - spookthesunset 3y ago
      > Funny though, kids seem to bitch less about masks and vaccines than adults. That is only because they are too young to have the life experience required to call bullshit. And even if they could they have zero political power because they are kids. And keep dreaming about how it caused no damage. We fucked over an entire generation of kids. It’s absolutely shameful what we did to kids. Adults sacrifice for their young. Not the other way around.
      - manuelabeledo 3y ago
        > Adults sacrifice for their young. Not the other way around. Kill them grandpas, I want to go to the bar. Am I right?
- oceanplexian 3y ago
  Health officials literally made extremely poor, technocratic decisions all throughout the pandemic, I don’t know how you can claim otherwise. Quite literally, signs were posted in places like parks, beaches, and outdoor spaces that you could not go there “per order of the health department”. The idea that you can’t go to the park to get fresh air when there’s an airborne virus floating around in closed spaces is literally the perfect example of a technocracy going completely off the rails.
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    You may want to read those signs a bit more closely, because the CDC did not close schools, parks, beaches, or restaurants. > Police enforced the orders in a lot of cases, astonishingly even when there was no law in place delegating that authority to them, or when it was blatantly illegal and contradicted the US Constitution (i.e Religious assembly). That's one of the things why the US was a laughing stock worldwide: prioritizing going to mass to a pandemic. But it is worth noting that these orders came from state governor offices, not the CDC. Again, the CDC does not have that kind of power.
    - spookthesunset 3y ago
      My friend, it isn’t 2020 anymore. It’s okay to admit you got fooled. Everybody will eventually convert to my side. Because those of us who see the lockdowns as a colossal mistake will be (sadly) proven right. What we did in response to covid was perhaps the biggest fuckup in human history. The story of covid is 10% disease mitigation, 20% intellectual error, 30% media fearmongering and 40% politics.
      - manuelabeledo 3y ago
        Fooled. Tell that to the million plus people dead. Like, WTF dude, come back down to earth, there was a pandemic and millions died.
        spookthesunset 3y ago
- soundnote 3y ago
  The technocrats themselves didn't believe in their own measures, as seen by press briefings where people took off the masks the moment the briefing was over, or decisionmakers flouting their own rules to go dining out in an indoor location while the plebs were in lockdown.
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    Anecdotal.
    - spookthesunset 3y ago
      It takes an incredible amount of sheltered privilege to write of what I wrote as anecdotal. But anything that doesn’t support the politically driven covid narrative is misinformation. I’m used to it by now. Somebody I once asked me if I’ve been living under a rock when I raised similar concerns early on. Which makes me laugh… the people living under rocks are all the people who cannot see the damage their myopic fixation caused. Writing my concerns off as “anecdotal” just demonstrates my point.
      - manuelabeledo 3y ago
        Anecdotal.
- spookthesunset 3y ago
  > an example of people throwing the most vulnerable under the bus to avoid slight inconveniences like wearing a mask Which is cool unless you are deaf and need to see faces to understand what people are saying. But who gives a shit about those people… as long as it isn’t covid it doesn’t matter. Speaking of vulnerable people… how about victims of domestic of violence forced to live with their abuser because of lockdown orders? Doesn’t matter… not covid. How about the elderly in assisted living facilities who were isolated from their friends and family thanks to lockdowns? Loneliness is an actual killer you know. But since they aren’t dying of covid who cares if they die completely alone. They don’t even get a proper funeral… unless they are George Floyd, then you get multiple huge public funerals. Speaking of funerals none of those “millions” of dead covid people didn’t get funerals either. Only celebrities get funerals in covid land—everything else is a “superspreader” event killing hundreds of grandmas. Speaking of vulnerable, how about kids whose only safe haven is school? What about special needs kids whose classes and therapies were canceled? What about them? Since it’s not covid, who gives a shit. Nope. In the myopic world of covidianism, the only thing that matters is covid. Anything else doesn’t matter at all. Covidians can wave the “I’m saving grandma” flag all they want and call everybody else selfish assholes who don’t care about “vulnerable people” but those same people don’t give a flying fuck about vulnerabilities populations at all.

manuelabeledo 3y ago

Again, health officials don't make these decisions. They don't have the power. > If 2020 taught me anything, it’s that technocracy is a horrible form of government. If “heath-care experts” were given the chance, I fully imagine us still playing covid theater to this day. You may want to take a look at the mortality rates of the US vs those of other developed nations where the "technocrats", as you call them, were listened to closely. What I see in there is a complete failure of the US as a society, an example of people throwing the most vulnerable under the bus to avoid slight inconveniences like wearing a mask. Regardless, the opposite of this "technocracy" is leaving specialized agencies in the hands of utterly unprepared people, career politicians, businesspeople and lawyers, instead of scientists and engineers. That is just madness.

mistermann 3y ago
> people throwing the most vulnerable under the bus to avoid slight inconveniences like wearing a mask. That's one variable. I suspect another is ~revenge, for past transgressions, real or imagined. As the saying goes: "As ye sow, so shall ye reap", and while sayings like this (there are many) is obviously speculative, I suspect there's a lot of truth to it. > Regardless, the opposite of this "technocracy" is leaving specialized agencies in the hands of utterly unprepared people, career politicians, businesspeople and lawyers, instead of scientists and engineers. That is just madness. An alternate approach is that we could collectively pursue optimality, regardless of whether that is outside the current Overton Window of behavior. No obligation, but it is an option if things ever get really bad. This is what so called democracy is advertised as doing, but I suspect that advertising is rather false.
southernplaces7 3y ago
Except if you look at COVID mortality by state, there's only partial correlation between the zealousness of mandates and death rates [link below] Also, easing up on measures that never fully clarified their cost-benefit analysis and caused all kinds of real harm while also often descending into the ideologically and theatrically absurd wasn't just about "avoiding slight inconveniences". https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi...
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  Cannot comment on these numbers, other than the fact that they are incomplete. Again, compared to other developed countries, the US had one of the worst outcomes. > Also, easing up on measures that never fully clarified their cost-benefit analysis and caused all kinds of real harm while also often descending into the ideologically and theatrically absurd wasn't just about "avoiding slight inconveniences". I'm waiting for anyone to prove that having to put on a mask was much more disruptive than COVID-19 or death. In HN, "social issues" come up a lot, like kids having to use masks and somehow suffering from "delays" in social learning, which doesn't seem to apply to me, as I have two young kids and they and their friends turned out to be just fine. Funny though, kids seem to bitch less about masks and vaccines than adults.
  - spookthesunset 3y ago
    > Funny though, kids seem to bitch less about masks and vaccines than adults. That is only because they are too young to have the life experience required to call bullshit. And even if they could they have zero political power because they are kids. And keep dreaming about how it caused no damage. We fucked over an entire generation of kids. It’s absolutely shameful what we did to kids. Adults sacrifice for their young. Not the other way around.
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      > Adults sacrifice for their young. Not the other way around. Kill them grandpas, I want to go to the bar. Am I right?
oceanplexian 3y ago
Health officials literally made extremely poor, technocratic decisions all throughout the pandemic, I don’t know how you can claim otherwise. Quite literally, signs were posted in places like parks, beaches, and outdoor spaces that you could not go there “per order of the health department”. The idea that you can’t go to the park to get fresh air when there’s an airborne virus floating around in closed spaces is literally the perfect example of a technocracy going completely off the rails.
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  You may want to read those signs a bit more closely, because the CDC did not close schools, parks, beaches, or restaurants. > Police enforced the orders in a lot of cases, astonishingly even when there was no law in place delegating that authority to them, or when it was blatantly illegal and contradicted the US Constitution (i.e Religious assembly). That's one of the things why the US was a laughing stock worldwide: prioritizing going to mass to a pandemic. But it is worth noting that these orders came from state governor offices, not the CDC. Again, the CDC does not have that kind of power.
  - spookthesunset 3y ago
    My friend, it isn’t 2020 anymore. It’s okay to admit you got fooled. Everybody will eventually convert to my side. Because those of us who see the lockdowns as a colossal mistake will be (sadly) proven right. What we did in response to covid was perhaps the biggest fuckup in human history. The story of covid is 10% disease mitigation, 20% intellectual error, 30% media fearmongering and 40% politics.
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      Fooled. Tell that to the million plus people dead. Like, WTF dude, come back down to earth, there was a pandemic and millions died.
      - spookthesunset 3y ago
soundnote 3y ago
The technocrats themselves didn't believe in their own measures, as seen by press briefings where people took off the masks the moment the briefing was over, or decisionmakers flouting their own rules to go dining out in an indoor location while the plebs were in lockdown.
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  Anecdotal.
  - spookthesunset 3y ago
    It takes an incredible amount of sheltered privilege to write of what I wrote as anecdotal. But anything that doesn’t support the politically driven covid narrative is misinformation. I’m used to it by now. Somebody I once asked me if I’ve been living under a rock when I raised similar concerns early on. Which makes me laugh… the people living under rocks are all the people who cannot see the damage their myopic fixation caused. Writing my concerns off as “anecdotal” just demonstrates my point.
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      Anecdotal.
spookthesunset 3y ago
> an example of people throwing the most vulnerable under the bus to avoid slight inconveniences like wearing a mask Which is cool unless you are deaf and need to see faces to understand what people are saying. But who gives a shit about those people… as long as it isn’t covid it doesn’t matter. Speaking of vulnerable people… how about victims of domestic of violence forced to live with their abuser because of lockdown orders? Doesn’t matter… not covid. How about the elderly in assisted living facilities who were isolated from their friends and family thanks to lockdowns? Loneliness is an actual killer you know. But since they aren’t dying of covid who cares if they die completely alone. They don’t even get a proper funeral… unless they are George Floyd, then you get multiple huge public funerals. Speaking of funerals none of those “millions” of dead covid people didn’t get funerals either. Only celebrities get funerals in covid land—everything else is a “superspreader” event killing hundreds of grandmas. Speaking of vulnerable, how about kids whose only safe haven is school? What about special needs kids whose classes and therapies were canceled? What about them? Since it’s not covid, who gives a shit. Nope. In the myopic world of covidianism, the only thing that matters is covid. Anything else doesn’t matter at all. Covidians can wave the “I’m saving grandma” flag all they want and call everybody else selfish assholes who don’t care about “vulnerable people” but those same people don’t give a flying fuck about vulnerabilities populations at all.