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> I think that the system works. How is the system working when clearly the newspaper is in a desperate search now for equipment to be able to stay in business

> I think that the system works. How is the system working when clearly the newspaper is in a desperate search now for equipment to be able to stay in business after theirs got taken by the police? Don’t you think that is somewhat chilling of free speech? What would be evidence of the system not working in your opinion? The editor washing up with a bullet in their head? All the journalist sentenced to 20 years of hard labour on the private farm of the police chief? The system is clearly not working.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
> What would be evidence of the system not working in your opinion? The fact we can read about this is evidence that it is working. Evidence that it is not working would be hard to come by because we wouldn't be able to read about it!
- twirlip 3y ago
  In the age of ubiquitous information sharing, the news of cops raiding a newspaper office is rather not a signal the system is working, than it is a klaxon that the system is failing.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    Alright. Please show me a system that works to your standards then.
    - twirlip 3y ago
      There are metrics that describe such standards. One such is the University of Würzburg's Democracy Matrix, another is the Corruption Perception Index.
- 1shooner 3y ago
  >The fact we can read about this is evidence that it is working. This is like saying we've cured cancer because you got a biopsy.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    We are talking about accountability, not cancer.
    - mindslight 3y ago
      Accountability would necessarily include this armed gang that committed numerous violent crimes being treated like an armed gang that committed numerous violent crimes, and getting locked up away from society for many years. Do you have any reason to believe that the outcome of this situation will have anything resembling this? Because I foresee the best plausible outcome, even with all this attention, is going to be something like a bunch of payouts from civil suits, without much really addressing the overwhelming criminality.
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
        Innocent until proven guilty? It just happened and we don't even know for sure if they acted improperly?
        mindslight 3y ago
        uh, I'm obviously talking about the outcome after due process, and assuming the described facts are roughly correct. I'll repeat the question - after the justice system has run its course, and assuming that the description of events is roughly correct, do you foresee any possibility of the perps ending up in prison?
- slikrick 3y ago
  Aka "the system can only be working" because you literally can only see the things you can see, which you use as justification of it working. Literally the most idiotic thing I've heard on this website.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

> What would be evidence of the system not working in your opinion? The fact we can read about this is evidence that it is working. Evidence that it is not working would be hard to come by because we wouldn't be able to read about it!

twirlip 3y ago
In the age of ubiquitous information sharing, the news of cops raiding a newspaper office is rather not a signal the system is working, than it is a klaxon that the system is failing.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  Alright. Please show me a system that works to your standards then.
  - twirlip 3y ago
    There are metrics that describe such standards. One such is the University of Würzburg's Democracy Matrix, another is the Corruption Perception Index.
1shooner 3y ago
>The fact we can read about this is evidence that it is working. This is like saying we've cured cancer because you got a biopsy.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  We are talking about accountability, not cancer.
  - mindslight 3y ago
    Accountability would necessarily include this armed gang that committed numerous violent crimes being treated like an armed gang that committed numerous violent crimes, and getting locked up away from society for many years. Do you have any reason to believe that the outcome of this situation will have anything resembling this? Because I foresee the best plausible outcome, even with all this attention, is going to be something like a bunch of payouts from civil suits, without much really addressing the overwhelming criminality.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
      Innocent until proven guilty? It just happened and we don't even know for sure if they acted improperly?
      - mindslight 3y ago
        uh, I'm obviously talking about the outcome after due process, and assuming the described facts are roughly correct. I'll repeat the question - after the justice system has run its course, and assuming that the description of events is roughly correct, do you foresee any possibility of the perps ending up in prison?
slikrick 3y ago
Aka "the system can only be working" because you literally can only see the things you can see, which you use as justification of it working. Literally the most idiotic thing I've heard on this website.