7 ms·

This comment is in no way an endorsement of Scott Adams, I generally do not like him. However, he recently posted something on Twitter that has been a brain wor

This comment is in no way an endorsement of Scott Adams, I generally do not like him. However, he recently posted something on Twitter that has been a brain worm for me. >"Success is mostly imitation. We study successful people and then try to imitate what worked." >"Imagine being Black, learning the history of slavery and racism, and being asked to imitate your oppressors to succeed." And a followup tweet: >"The most damaging reframe in American history is that using the universal tools for success is “acting white.” Solve that problem and we’ll have better visibility on the systemic racism that is primarily caused by the teachers unions."

jdpigeon 3y ago
The last tweet is a little confusing. Teacher's unions? Really?
- Consultant32452 3y ago
  I used to watch Adams' podcast. It would require a lot of context to fully make sense. Suffice to say he thinks teacher's unions are a big component of the problem here and imo the primary value of his comment here could be conveyed if you remove the tail end of that Tweet which puts it on the teacher's unions.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    I’m not sure context helps him with his other outbursts. “Based on the current way things are going, the best advice I would give to White people is to get the hell away from Black people,” the 65-year-old author exclaimed. “Just get the (expletive) away. Wherever you have to go, just get away. Because there’s no fixing this. This can’t be fixed.” https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/02/23/dilberts-scott-adams-white-people-should-get-the-hell-away-from-black-people/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/02/23/dilberts-scott-adams-... “The reality is that women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally handicapped are treated differently.” https://ew.com/article/2011/03/30/dilbert-scott-adams-feminist-outrage/ https://ew.com/article/2011/03/30/dilbert-scott-adams-femini... Trump is like the founding fathers and Jesus. https://www.thedailybeast.com/dilbert-creator-on-how-trump-is-like-the-founding-fathers-and-jesus https://www.thedailybeast.com/dilbert-creator-on-how-trump-i... There is a bit of coverage in the wiki. He writes a good cartoon but he is radioactive in his views. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Adams https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Adams
    - Consultant32452 3y ago
      Terrible people are sometimes capable of saying things worth considering, and it's possible to consider one thing he says without endorsing or accepting other things he's said or even his personal context for the words being considered.
      - zlg_codes 3y ago
        It's difficult to defend a stance like one you're adopting, because of how quick to judge the general public is. They'd never know that someone like Ted Kaczynski actually held a PhD and wrote an interesting essay before committing to his campaign of terror. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski) It's rather strange that people will choose to wholly dismiss a person based on one thing, without realizing that even "evil" people have more facets than a simple bevel. Ted killed himself in prison a few months ago. What benefit could society have gained if someone had heard him out and took some measures to help the environment? Most people won't ask that question, because they have the intellectual and philosophical depth of a puddle. One of the most illuminating things in my life has been discovering what the "bad" and "evil" side of humanity actually thought, instead of the version that the authorities or victors give us. There's also this modern tendency to assume that whatever you read, you become. So superstitious.
        weaksauce 3y ago
        > There's also this modern tendency to assume that whatever you read, you become. So superstitious. Sure... but there's also a wealth of information out there and filtering out people with known abhorrent views is a decent first pass filter. maybe alex jones or some other neo-nazi dimwit has a few good ideas here and there but why would I subject myself to listening to them(and also enriching them in the process) when I could listen to people that aren't generally awful people?
        setr 3y ago
        I think shallow views is a much better first-pass filter than abhorrent views; a sufficiently in-depth abhorrent view can and likely will have components worth taking from, even if their final conclusion is absurd (or just overreaching). An acceptable-but-shallow view and an abhorrent-but-shallow view are equally worthless; effectively as much value an upvote.
- tomcam 3y ago
  1. No evidence at all that teacher unions help students. Test scores have gone down drastically all over the country for the last 30 years or so. 2. The teacher unions are against school vouchers, which almost completely eliminates competition in the districts that need it most. A large majority of black families are in favor of school vouchers.
rodrattt 3y ago
Just a thing I noticed since I don't know Scott Adams etc. — surely being a slave couldn't be considered a success‽ I'm sure I'm missing the meaning here somehow but to me it's quite obvious we may imitate something successful and not imitate something unsuccessful.
- barrkel 3y ago
  The implied theory in the paraphrased quotes is that Black people are not successful in part because they have learned a framing where success requires acting like a slave owner, or acting white. That is, behaviors that correlate with success are tainted with being the way (oppressive) white people act.
  - CMCDragonkai 3y ago
    This obviously can't be true for African Africans. Even including former colonies.
- Consultant32452 3y ago
  I think this part clarifies it: >The most damaging reframe in American history is that using the universal tools for success is “acting white.” If you are not American it may not be clear. One specific example of a "universal tool for success" being marred in this way is that black kids who are successful academically are sometimes bullied for "acting white." I've intentionally found a left leaning source discussing this phenomenon. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/acting-white-charge-origins/594130/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/acting-whi...
  - porkbeer 3y ago
    My darker friends often caught hell from associating with a 'white boy' like me. The racism problem is bad on the other side too and many people discount this, but it may be a bigger problem than the obverse for culture and progress.
    - 3y ago

jdpigeon 3y ago

The last tweet is a little confusing. Teacher's unions? Really?

Consultant32452 3y ago
I used to watch Adams' podcast. It would require a lot of context to fully make sense. Suffice to say he thinks teacher's unions are a big component of the problem here and imo the primary value of his comment here could be conveyed if you remove the tail end of that Tweet which puts it on the teacher's unions.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  I’m not sure context helps him with his other outbursts. “Based on the current way things are going, the best advice I would give to White people is to get the hell away from Black people,” the 65-year-old author exclaimed. “Just get the (expletive) away. Wherever you have to go, just get away. Because there’s no fixing this. This can’t be fixed.” https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/02/23/dilberts-scott-adams-white-people-should-get-the-hell-away-from-black-people/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/02/23/dilberts-scott-adams-... “The reality is that women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally handicapped are treated differently.” https://ew.com/article/2011/03/30/dilbert-scott-adams-feminist-outrage/ https://ew.com/article/2011/03/30/dilbert-scott-adams-femini... Trump is like the founding fathers and Jesus. https://www.thedailybeast.com/dilbert-creator-on-how-trump-is-like-the-founding-fathers-and-jesus https://www.thedailybeast.com/dilbert-creator-on-how-trump-i... There is a bit of coverage in the wiki. He writes a good cartoon but he is radioactive in his views. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Adams https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Adams
  - Consultant32452 3y ago
    Terrible people are sometimes capable of saying things worth considering, and it's possible to consider one thing he says without endorsing or accepting other things he's said or even his personal context for the words being considered.
    - zlg_codes 3y ago
      It's difficult to defend a stance like one you're adopting, because of how quick to judge the general public is. They'd never know that someone like Ted Kaczynski actually held a PhD and wrote an interesting essay before committing to his campaign of terror. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski) It's rather strange that people will choose to wholly dismiss a person based on one thing, without realizing that even "evil" people have more facets than a simple bevel. Ted killed himself in prison a few months ago. What benefit could society have gained if someone had heard him out and took some measures to help the environment? Most people won't ask that question, because they have the intellectual and philosophical depth of a puddle. One of the most illuminating things in my life has been discovering what the "bad" and "evil" side of humanity actually thought, instead of the version that the authorities or victors give us. There's also this modern tendency to assume that whatever you read, you become. So superstitious.
      - weaksauce 3y ago
        > There's also this modern tendency to assume that whatever you read, you become. So superstitious. Sure... but there's also a wealth of information out there and filtering out people with known abhorrent views is a decent first pass filter. maybe alex jones or some other neo-nazi dimwit has a few good ideas here and there but why would I subject myself to listening to them(and also enriching them in the process) when I could listen to people that aren't generally awful people?
        setr 3y ago
        I think shallow views is a much better first-pass filter than abhorrent views; a sufficiently in-depth abhorrent view can and likely will have components worth taking from, even if their final conclusion is absurd (or just overreaching). An acceptable-but-shallow view and an abhorrent-but-shallow view are equally worthless; effectively as much value an upvote.
tomcam 3y ago
1. No evidence at all that teacher unions help students. Test scores have gone down drastically all over the country for the last 30 years or so. 2. The teacher unions are against school vouchers, which almost completely eliminates competition in the districts that need it most. A large majority of black families are in favor of school vouchers.

rodrattt 3y ago

Just a thing I noticed since I don't know Scott Adams etc. — surely being a slave couldn't be considered a success‽ I'm sure I'm missing the meaning here somehow but to me it's quite obvious we may imitate something successful and not imitate something unsuccessful.

barrkel 3y ago
The implied theory in the paraphrased quotes is that Black people are not successful in part because they have learned a framing where success requires acting like a slave owner, or acting white. That is, behaviors that correlate with success are tainted with being the way (oppressive) white people act.
- CMCDragonkai 3y ago
  This obviously can't be true for African Africans. Even including former colonies.
Consultant32452 3y ago
I think this part clarifies it: >The most damaging reframe in American history is that using the universal tools for success is “acting white.” If you are not American it may not be clear. One specific example of a "universal tool for success" being marred in this way is that black kids who are successful academically are sometimes bullied for "acting white." I've intentionally found a left leaning source discussing this phenomenon. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/acting-white-charge-origins/594130/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/acting-whi...
- porkbeer 3y ago
  My darker friends often caught hell from associating with a 'white boy' like me. The racism problem is bad on the other side too and many people discount this, but it may be a bigger problem than the obverse for culture and progress.
  - 3y ago