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its fundamentally wrong to treat your employees learning process as a long term investment that you maintain ownership of. paying someone for two months to come

its fundamentally wrong to treat your employees learning process as a long term investment that you maintain ownership of. paying someone for two months to come up to speed is an investment. if they become productive in your environment, that investment is very quickly paid off. if they don't, then your at-risk investment didn't pay off. the return is the work that you got from them afterwards. you don't get to claim ownership of what's in their head. if someone gives you two years of good work and moves on because you aren't giving them what _they_ need, or because their father got ill, you still came out way ahead. you should be a human and accept that.

scarface_74 3y ago
They didn’t though if I hired someone with no experience. They gave me six months of negative work as they took time away from the more experienced developers, did a year and a half of resume driven development (if they are smart) and then moved on. If I hired someone with the experience I was looking for, then they gave me 2 years of productive work. Why would I train someone new instead of just poaching your developer at market rates?
- convolvatron 3y ago
  having a mix of experience levels is really healthy for an organization. streamlining onboarding and extracting the secret recipes from the seniors is really valuable there is no better understanding than that gained by teaching its clearly a higher risk investment, but often times that one super workhorse and brilliant jewel is the one that you helped grow but yeah, I've had employees that just sat around learning the latest fad and left. it happens. but if it happens a lot then maybe you should look at your hiring and management if I convince someone to come work for me, its not poaching. its life.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > but if it happens a lot then maybe you should look at your hiring and management You as a hiring manager only have power of hiring and management. Your HR department at the behest of their management controls how much of a raise you can give your employees. You can give them the meaningless platitudes of “we are family” for only so long.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >Why would I train someone new instead of just poaching your developer at market rates? Because you pay more, and still have the risk of less/negative productivity anyway? Who says experienced dev won't do 2 years of resume driven development instead? Who says they won't simply zone out and spend their last 6 months being poached the same way you poached them from the last company? your argument works under the assumption that your experienced hire has no downsides, and there's no risk of upside for the less experienced hire.

scarface_74 3y ago

They didn’t though if I hired someone with no experience. They gave me six months of negative work as they took time away from the more experienced developers, did a year and a half of resume driven development (if they are smart) and then moved on. If I hired someone with the experience I was looking for, then they gave me 2 years of productive work. Why would I train someone new instead of just poaching your developer at market rates?

convolvatron 3y ago
having a mix of experience levels is really healthy for an organization. streamlining onboarding and extracting the secret recipes from the seniors is really valuable there is no better understanding than that gained by teaching its clearly a higher risk investment, but often times that one super workhorse and brilliant jewel is the one that you helped grow but yeah, I've had employees that just sat around learning the latest fad and left. it happens. but if it happens a lot then maybe you should look at your hiring and management if I convince someone to come work for me, its not poaching. its life.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > but if it happens a lot then maybe you should look at your hiring and management You as a hiring manager only have power of hiring and management. Your HR department at the behest of their management controls how much of a raise you can give your employees. You can give them the meaningless platitudes of “we are family” for only so long.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
>Why would I train someone new instead of just poaching your developer at market rates? Because you pay more, and still have the risk of less/negative productivity anyway? Who says experienced dev won't do 2 years of resume driven development instead? Who says they won't simply zone out and spend their last 6 months being poached the same way you poached them from the last company? your argument works under the assumption that your experienced hire has no downsides, and there's no risk of upside for the less experienced hire.