46 ms·

The part I struggle with is, how do I let my kids program and be creative on the computer without being online when daddy can’t program without an internet conn

The part I struggle with is, how do I let my kids program and be creative on the computer without being online when daddy can’t program without an internet connection? How will they develop “street smarts” about being on social media without a social media account? How do I let them have the same positive experiences I had playing games without having the deeply negative ones too (I lost that breastplate that took weeks of grinding to get because the Bloodwood forest swallowed my corpse).

blackoil 3y ago
Instead of a complete blockade create an allow list. So Stack Overflow and MDN are allowed but general Internet is not. You can also keep offline copies of books, courses and videos.
AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
Get them an Amiga? Or maybe load up a laptop with EndlessOS?
vb6sp6 3y ago
Two things: 1. Set the example and model positive behavior. - Stop using social media. If they see you doom scrolling they are going to doom scroll. - Stop playing mmo or games that require subscriptions or have egregious monetization. -I'm sure you have other skill you can teach them that don't require an internet connection, and if you don't, you can show them how to use the internet for educational purposes instead of watching idiots on social media. 2. Monitor and correct. Your kids are going want the same apps their friends have. Monitor their usage so you can help them get the street smarts. A lot of the apps have privacy settings so you will need to get familiar with them. iOS and android both have tools to limit the amount of time they can use the app for as well. Unfortunately this takes a lot of time and effort on your part. Try your best and good luck.
soligern 3y ago
Do they really need to develop street smarts for social media? Most people I know don’t use it or are only consumers.
prmoustache 3y ago
Anyone can program without an internet connection. You just need the local documentation.
- jejeyyy77 3y ago
  not practical
  - vlod 3y ago
    How do you think developers built programs pre google/stack-overflow? i.e. early to late 90's.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      A shelf or two full of books and magazines and generally much more slowly.
    - lostlogin 3y ago
      It was hard and less people did it.
      - flskafdslaf 3y ago
        And now it's easy and we're drowning in endless webby and cloudy cruft.
      - prmoustache 3y ago
        The people who declared themselves developers/programmers weren't just serial copy/pasters that is for sure.
    - ht85 3y ago
      Exactly, when my car doesn't work I just ride one of my horses /s
- throwawaykk4 3y ago
  Local documentation does not exist anymore, in a practical form. You need the official docs plus countless other resources from other people and for a relevant version of your software. Gone are the days a few books and a computer was all you needed. Your compiler is spilling out some weird message? Go scavenge the interwebs for someone who figured it out or spend your whole weekend in that.
gentleman11 3y ago
If you let your kids on social media, meta and YouTube is raising your kids, not you, using all the manipulative tricks they have to shape them into consumers and attention addicts, who think these online services are reality, letting them convince them of god knows what
raincole 3y ago
> How will they develop “street smarts” about being on social media without a social media account? Is it actually a thing tho? I think it's just general critical thinking. No every older person who starts using social media at their 60s becomes a flat-earther. > How do I let them have the same positive experiences I had playing games without having the deeply negative ones too (I lost that breastplate that took weeks of grinding to get because the Bloodwood forest swallowed my corpse). I don't think you can. You should definitely keep them from, for example, random pedos trying to find next victims via online games. But loss of in-game items? It's more or less the point of games, isn't it? Teach you to balance risk and reward? > how do I let my kids program and be creative on the computer without being online when daddy can’t program without an internet connection? You can program without an internet connection if you try. If someone points a gun at your head and asks you to code a binary search without googling you'll probably find yourself suddenly so smart. (not saying we should do that, especially not to kids)
- retrac 3y ago
  Indeed it's probably good to practice coding without Copilot or Stack Exchange completing all your thoughts for you. Actually, I would recommend, once in a while, trying to code the traditional way -- with pen and paper. That still has its place with high-level design and when toying around with algorithms. Sometimes it's helpful to strip away all the distractions, and instant-access documentation and compiler feedback are a kind of potential distraction, really. YMMV.
rightbyte 3y ago
Becoming "street smart" in no way out weights the risks of becoming it. I see it as a cope rationalization. Like, roaming around Chicago as a 15yo. What do you learn the hard way that a 25yo does not understand by default.
- iampims 3y ago
  Life.
- tptacek 3y ago
  I don't know, but I roamed around Chicago as a 15 year old in the early 1990s. What was I supposed to have learned?
flskafdslaf 3y ago
Let them be creative in ways that don't need a computer? It's not the be-all and end-all.
bassclari 3y ago
[dead]
ghusto 3y ago
> The part I struggle with is, how do I let my kids program and be creative on the computer without being online when daddy can’t program without an internet connection? Same way we did "back in my day"? Books are still a thing, and in my opinion, much better. When you have to work for something, you value it more, and in the case of information, are more likely to retain it (this is due to real-world connections being made). > How will they develop “street smarts” about being on social media without a social media account? Why do you care? Being the odd one out in a wrong world isn't a bad thing. I was the odd one out in a similar way when I was a kid, and it did me wonders. > How do I let them have the same positive experiences I had playing games without having the deeply negative ones too Presuming you mean negative generally, why would you want to? Ups and downs are what make games interesting, not just constant endorphin pushing ups.
jstarfish 3y ago
> How will they develop “street smarts” about being on social media without a social media account? "Don't trust strangers; they only want to humiliate, rape, or kill you" works well enough. Same as reality, the problem with social media is the people. The "street smarts" kids have picked up from social media access is nothing to celebrate. /r/runaway is a very sordid place encouraging kids to hook up with total strangers. Rate of teen suicide has only increased since the invention of social media. Kids are exchanging scamming tactics and teaching each other how to maintain eating disorders covertly and fake illnesses convincingly enough to fool doctors. Give them a book and a Python interpreter. Plenty of us got started that way, and some of us still have to work that way-- in SCIFs or other air-gapped environments with no internet access. > How do I let them have the same positive experiences I had playing games without having the deeply negative ones too (I lost that breastplate that took weeks of grinding to get because the Bloodwood forest swallowed my corpse). What does this have to do with the internet? Everyone has lost local saves due to bugs, power outage or corrupted media. "Save early and save often" was a lesson taught by a creepy middle-aged guy named Larry Laffer, using entirely-offline software bearing his name.

blackoil 3y ago

Instead of a complete blockade create an allow list. So Stack Overflow and MDN are allowed but general Internet is not. You can also keep offline copies of books, courses and videos.

AdmiralAsshat 3y ago

Get them an Amiga? Or maybe load up a laptop with EndlessOS?

vb6sp6 3y ago

Two things: 1. Set the example and model positive behavior. - Stop using social media. If they see you doom scrolling they are going to doom scroll. - Stop playing mmo or games that require subscriptions or have egregious monetization. -I'm sure you have other skill you can teach them that don't require an internet connection, and if you don't, you can show them how to use the internet for educational purposes instead of watching idiots on social media. 2. Monitor and correct. Your kids are going want the same apps their friends have. Monitor their usage so you can help them get the street smarts. A lot of the apps have privacy settings so you will need to get familiar with them. iOS and android both have tools to limit the amount of time they can use the app for as well. Unfortunately this takes a lot of time and effort on your part. Try your best and good luck.

soligern 3y ago

Do they really need to develop street smarts for social media? Most people I know don’t use it or are only consumers.

prmoustache 3y ago

Anyone can program without an internet connection. You just need the local documentation.

jejeyyy77 3y ago
not practical
- vlod 3y ago
  How do you think developers built programs pre google/stack-overflow? i.e. early to late 90's.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    A shelf or two full of books and magazines and generally much more slowly.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    It was hard and less people did it.
    - flskafdslaf 3y ago
      And now it's easy and we're drowning in endless webby and cloudy cruft.
    - prmoustache 3y ago
      The people who declared themselves developers/programmers weren't just serial copy/pasters that is for sure.
  - ht85 3y ago
    Exactly, when my car doesn't work I just ride one of my horses /s
throwawaykk4 3y ago
Local documentation does not exist anymore, in a practical form. You need the official docs plus countless other resources from other people and for a relevant version of your software. Gone are the days a few books and a computer was all you needed. Your compiler is spilling out some weird message? Go scavenge the interwebs for someone who figured it out or spend your whole weekend in that.

gentleman11 3y ago

If you let your kids on social media, meta and YouTube is raising your kids, not you, using all the manipulative tricks they have to shape them into consumers and attention addicts, who think these online services are reality, letting them convince them of god knows what

raincole 3y ago

> How will they develop “street smarts” about being on social media without a social media account? Is it actually a thing tho? I think it's just general critical thinking. No every older person who starts using social media at their 60s becomes a flat-earther. > How do I let them have the same positive experiences I had playing games without having the deeply negative ones too (I lost that breastplate that took weeks of grinding to get because the Bloodwood forest swallowed my corpse). I don't think you can. You should definitely keep them from, for example, random pedos trying to find next victims via online games. But loss of in-game items? It's more or less the point of games, isn't it? Teach you to balance risk and reward? > how do I let my kids program and be creative on the computer without being online when daddy can’t program without an internet connection? You can program without an internet connection if you try. If someone points a gun at your head and asks you to code a binary search without googling you'll probably find yourself suddenly so smart. (not saying we should do that, especially not to kids)

retrac 3y ago
Indeed it's probably good to practice coding without Copilot or Stack Exchange completing all your thoughts for you. Actually, I would recommend, once in a while, trying to code the traditional way -- with pen and paper. That still has its place with high-level design and when toying around with algorithms. Sometimes it's helpful to strip away all the distractions, and instant-access documentation and compiler feedback are a kind of potential distraction, really. YMMV.

rightbyte 3y ago

Becoming "street smart" in no way out weights the risks of becoming it. I see it as a cope rationalization. Like, roaming around Chicago as a 15yo. What do you learn the hard way that a 25yo does not understand by default.

iampims 3y ago
Life.
tptacek 3y ago
I don't know, but I roamed around Chicago as a 15 year old in the early 1990s. What was I supposed to have learned?

flskafdslaf 3y ago

Let them be creative in ways that don't need a computer? It's not the be-all and end-all.

bassclari 3y ago

[dead]

ghusto 3y ago

> The part I struggle with is, how do I let my kids program and be creative on the computer without being online when daddy can’t program without an internet connection? Same way we did "back in my day"? Books are still a thing, and in my opinion, much better. When you have to work for something, you value it more, and in the case of information, are more likely to retain it (this is due to real-world connections being made). > How will they develop “street smarts” about being on social media without a social media account? Why do you care? Being the odd one out in a wrong world isn't a bad thing. I was the odd one out in a similar way when I was a kid, and it did me wonders. > How do I let them have the same positive experiences I had playing games without having the deeply negative ones too Presuming you mean negative generally, why would you want to? Ups and downs are what make games interesting, not just constant endorphin pushing ups.

jstarfish 3y ago

> How will they develop “street smarts” about being on social media without a social media account? "Don't trust strangers; they only want to humiliate, rape, or kill you" works well enough. Same as reality, the problem with social media is the people. The "street smarts" kids have picked up from social media access is nothing to celebrate. /r/runaway is a very sordid place encouraging kids to hook up with total strangers. Rate of teen suicide has only increased since the invention of social media. Kids are exchanging scamming tactics and teaching each other how to maintain eating disorders covertly and fake illnesses convincingly enough to fool doctors. Give them a book and a Python interpreter. Plenty of us got started that way, and some of us still have to work that way-- in SCIFs or other air-gapped environments with no internet access. > How do I let them have the same positive experiences I had playing games without having the deeply negative ones too (I lost that breastplate that took weeks of grinding to get because the Bloodwood forest swallowed my corpse). What does this have to do with the internet? Everyone has lost local saves due to bugs, power outage or corrupted media. "Save early and save often" was a lesson taught by a creepy middle-aged guy named Larry Laffer, using entirely-offline software bearing his name.