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He leaked top secret information and fled to america's worst enemy Russia, where he enjoys a peaceful life now. His revelations are not as shocking to the publi

by _8j50 3y ago

He leaked top secret information and fled to america's worst enemy Russia, where he enjoys a peaceful life now. His revelations are not as shocking to the public as they are to tech people. And the journalists he went to were not american. If he indeed exhausted legal options to report his findings he should have made his case in a US court. There several implications to his actions. One is that he has no faith in the US legal system and has rejected it, another is that he believed his revelations were unlawful and without precedent, both things are untrue, the intel oversight committee was aware of what the NSA was doing and it was not their first time spying on americans. Even before electronics, intel agencies opening the letters of americans and spying on them was a thing. Many regular people I talked to about this are actually glad because they hear about ISIS and terrorist bombings all the time (back then at least). When bombings like the boston marathon bombing happened, what did the public/media say? They all blamed the fbi for not stopping it beforehand, and after 9/11 the NSA and CIA were expected to work hand-in-hand with the FBI and domestic LE by lending/extending their capability to help them. You will all remember how this was not even a 2016 election issue. Personally, I am very glad snowden revealed what he did, and a lot of people in the USGOV should have been imprisoned for it. But the people voted and continued to vote in favor of the government, vindicating them and condemning snowden. Other leakers followed his way and they were appropriately jailed and then released as he would have. This is thr unfortunate reality of democracy and the state of mind of the majority of americans. Self included, the USGOV is not my enemy but Russia is. As much as I appreciste snowden's efforts, expecting americans to side with a person who defected to Russia is silly. He is someone who did what he thought was right but defecting to Russia makes him an enemy, not a hero, despite what he said. Let me put it in a very simple way: American's (self included, as much as I care about privacy -- I have been a victim of this more than you know!), compared to defecting to Russia or humiliating the US by fleeing to our enemy don't give a shit about the government spying on us unlawfully. The people are aware,every major media outlet and even major movies told them exactly what snowden did and revealed. Snowden is a pariah because that is the will of the plurality of americans.

dijit 3y ago
You've made a few false statements, so lets go through them to keep the record clean. > He leaked top secret information True, however it was detailing criminal behaviour and projects that were designed with criminal intent. The Government was not allowed to be running those programs as dragnet surveillance is against the constitution. > fled to america's worst enemy Russia False, there is ample evidence to support the fact that he was travelling somewhere else and was unable to continue passed Russia. Where he has decided to settle. > His revelations are not as shocking to the public as they are to tech people. True, Which is unfortunate, the tech industry taking notice has had positive impacts, like the taps that were placed on google datacenters being less effective due to TLS being deployed between all services inside google. A very serious undertaking. It also pushed us to create new TLS suites (TLS 1.3) with this in mind and was at least partially responsible for LetsEncrypts existence. So, despite the public taking less care than they should have; it has been for their benefit. > The journalists he went to were not american. Laura Poitras is not American? Glenn Greenwald is not American? > If he indeed exhausted legal options to report his findings he should have made his case in a US court. How did that go for William Binney? I'm fairly certain you never heard of him or his revelations. I think the point you've missed is that NSA is above oversight. It's "Enemy of the State" but.. actually, it's exactly like that. > but defecting to Russia makes him an enemy, not a hero This is so extremely childish that I am at a loss at how to argue this. He is in Russia, by the US's own doing, there is a lot of evidence to support that he preferred to be elsewhere. If the only thing you have to smear him on is the fact that he's in an enemy country then sir: you've missed the point. He was always going to end up in an enemy country if he was going to be safe from the US's agents. Assange was in an embassy in London and there was still discussion in the intelligence community (up to the president) on whether they should assassinate him. In an allied country, in a fucking embassy. Indefensible. ---- You're also making a cardinal sin, (as am I by responding to you). If a crackhead gives you a video tape of your child being raped by the local priest, you don't say that the crackhead is a crackhead and thus ignore the video tape. You fucking use the videotape to go to the police. This is not about how much integrity Snowden has, that's completely irrelevant. He shows that the NSA broke the law and knowingly lied to congress. This is absolutely not open for debate, it's a plain and simple fact, and yet we sit and bicker about how Snowden just "isn't american enough" and how "it's nice for our enemies". -- No. It's nice for our enemies because our governments are doing things they shouldn't be. Not holding them to account is not going to make our governments any better.

by _8j50 3y ago

dijit 3y ago

You've made a few false statements, so lets go through them to keep the record clean. > He leaked top secret information True, however it was detailing criminal behaviour and projects that were designed with criminal intent. The Government was not allowed to be running those programs as dragnet surveillance is against the constitution. > fled to america's worst enemy Russia False, there is ample evidence to support the fact that he was travelling somewhere else and was unable to continue passed Russia. Where he has decided to settle. > His revelations are not as shocking to the public as they are to tech people. True, Which is unfortunate, the tech industry taking notice has had positive impacts, like the taps that were placed on google datacenters being less effective due to TLS being deployed between all services inside google. A very serious undertaking. It also pushed us to create new TLS suites (TLS 1.3) with this in mind and was at least partially responsible for LetsEncrypts existence. So, despite the public taking less care than they should have; it has been for their benefit. > The journalists he went to were not american. Laura Poitras is not American? Glenn Greenwald is not American? > If he indeed exhausted legal options to report his findings he should have made his case in a US court. How did that go for William Binney? I'm fairly certain you never heard of him or his revelations. I think the point you've missed is that NSA is above oversight. It's "Enemy of the State" but.. actually, it's exactly like that. > but defecting to Russia makes him an enemy, not a hero This is so extremely childish that I am at a loss at how to argue this. He is in Russia, by the US's own doing, there is a lot of evidence to support that he preferred to be elsewhere. If the only thing you have to smear him on is the fact that he's in an enemy country then sir: you've missed the point. He was always going to end up in an enemy country if he was going to be safe from the US's agents. Assange was in an embassy in London and there was still discussion in the intelligence community (up to the president) on whether they should assassinate him. In an allied country, in a fucking embassy. Indefensible. ---- You're also making a cardinal sin, (as am I by responding to you). If a crackhead gives you a video tape of your child being raped by the local priest, you don't say that the crackhead is a crackhead and thus ignore the video tape. You fucking use the videotape to go to the police. This is not about how much integrity Snowden has, that's completely irrelevant. He shows that the NSA broke the law and knowingly lied to congress. This is absolutely not open for debate, it's a plain and simple fact, and yet we sit and bicker about how Snowden just "isn't american enough" and how "it's nice for our enemies". -- No. It's nice for our enemies because our governments are doing things they shouldn't be. Not holding them to account is not going to make our governments any better.