6 ms·

What is the best way to let these greedy bastards know that we disagree with their conduct? Not buying records will only lead to them wrongfully claiming that t

What is the best way to let these greedy bastards know that we disagree with their conduct? Not buying records will only lead to them wrongfully claiming that they "lost revenue due to piracy".

karaterobot 3y ago
Don't let that stop you. They'll always have complaints.
xhkkffbf 3y ago
How? Set up your own record label and implement your wish list of better terms. If you're reading hacker news, there's a good chance you can do most of the coding for free/stock/spec. Then you can be like totally cool about piracy and drink all of the kool aid about how piracy is just a different form of promotion. My guess is that you'll come to the same conclusion as me: piracy destroys marketplaces. It forces the honest people to subsidize the free riders. If it were about something like food, I can understand a Jean-Val-Jean argument, but can anyone say with a straight face that they're stealing these fresh cuts just so their baby can listen to ccool music? I think you'll also come to a grudging recognition of just how expensive it can be to market music. I've always thought the percentages demanded by record companies were outrageous, but when I tried to duplicate their services on my own I quickly learned where the money goes. The IA is on a crash course to destroy the livlihood of artists, writers and other content creators. Don't ask me why. It doesn't make sense. They provide a nice service for society but now they're out on some crusade.
- isykt 3y ago
  > how expensive it can be to market music. Did you write this comment in 2001? The cost to produce and promote music has dropped to near zero. SoundCloud rappers have become millionaires. Billie Eilesh recorded her first album in her bedroom.
  - raincole 3y ago
    Recording album is not marketing. If you think there is no marketing and PR people behinds those "grassroots superstars", you're utterly naive.
  - sidlls 3y ago
    I'm dating someone who has visions of fame through his music. These "soundcloud rapper millionaires" and Billie Eilesh have so much more marketing spent on them than you might believe. It is hard to make it anywhere in that business without a lot of promotion, and that requires a lot of money. Initially often in the form of small payments that add up. A few hundred dollars here to be added to a playlist, a few hundred there for gig promotion...over time that turns into tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. For one artist. To even get a tiny start that may not lead anywhere.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Almost every business out there has costs associated with it.
      - sidlls 3y ago
        Yes. It seemed to me the GP's comment implied that those "rapper millionaires" and Billie Eilesh just made it big without having to pay those costs (or at least, not to the same degree). My point was a counterargument.
    - onetokeoverthe 3y ago
      [dead]
- GhostWhisperer 3y ago
  i grew up downloading everything from music to games, and windows xp, anything i could get my hands on these days i do pay for everything, music(spotify), movies(netflix, apple tv), games(steam, gog, itch.io, playstation), to software(app store, gh sponsor, opencollective) – i still pirate though; if netflix has an anime but happens to be dubbed on the wrong language, i'll hit the high seas and get me a copy dubbed in english, no regrets
- iforgotpassword 3y ago
  There's more between "being cool with piracy" and "thinking copyright should hold indefinitely". This is about 78rpm records ffs. All the artists are probably dead by now.
  - redwall_hp 3y ago
    The artists were probably paid a one-off $50 to come into the studio and record, and the rentiers have profited off them ever since.
- hirako2000 3y ago
  A couple of fallacies in there. Distributors have - bended creative work property laws/precedents to maximise profits. - Been using marketing as barrier of entry. - many times used anti competitive practices. Paying consumers are not subsidising free riders. Given zero or an infinity of pirates the ticket price woụld not change. An effective anti piracy solution doesn't imply pirates would convert into paying consumers, some would of course, and ticket prices would most likely increase rather than decrease. Dubious parallel and nobody is forced. Taxes are forced subsidies. Aside those that's business models and market response.
- BoxFour 3y ago
  > The IA is on a crash course to destroy the livlihood of artists, writers and other content creators Every single artist mentioned by name here has long since passed away, and in some cases even their children have passed away.
satao 3y ago
Stop voting in capitalistic assholes who value intelectual and property rights over everything else.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  In a true free market, there won’t be govt enforcement of IP.
  - raincole 3y ago
    In a true free market we'll be hiring militias to protect our properties. Or more likely, be hired as one.
    - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
      Glad we agree we are not in a pure capitalistic society.
- kmeisthax 3y ago
  Unfortunately you can't vote None of the Above :/ Support among the US political class for copyright and patent law runs so deep that the main argument for untangling our economy from China's is not "they undercut US labor" or "they manipulate their currency" but "they steal our IP". An interesting choice of words, because that's an exclusive 'we'[0]. US voters have little need for copyrights and patents beyond ensuring that creative works get made. But the US political class is utterly dependent on their continued existence. BTW, this even extends to Trumpism. Trump was very vocal about China stealing "our IP." The US economy is structured such that you cannot become rich without owning copyrights, patents, oil fields, or real estate. Everything else will be thrown into the abyss of partial post-scarcity. [0] In some languages (not English) there's an inclusive 'we' and an exclusive 'we'. The latter would be used with the same implication as, say, "We've won the lottery - except for you."
  - sidlls 3y ago
    I'm not sure if you meant "you cannot become rich without owning copyrights, patents, oil fields, or real estate" literally or not, but it's not really true in any case. There are plenty of people (doctors, dentists, lawyers, software engineers, small business owners) who become wealthy without owning any of those things. Not as wealthy as those who do, perhaps, but wealthy nonetheless. I'm one of them--a lucky IPO that occurred a few years after I started working at my current employer turned me from an indebted paycheck-to-paycheck engineer into someone who could retire tomorrow and still live a decent middle-class lifestyle on my investments. I didn't own real estate until I after I got rich.
isykt 3y ago
A brick through a window used to be a common way to make a message known.
- lakomen 3y ago
  They have so many windows nowadays though ;) in too many cities
echelon 3y ago
Build AI music tools. Make it easy for the next generation of artists and create a Cambrian explosion of new music to wash out the old, copyright encumbered works.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  New crappy music.
- steroids33331 3y ago
  [flagged]
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Ransomware with no key provided from a jurisdiction that won’t extradite if discussing threat modeling around generic org weaknesses. Everyone is vulnerable to a sufficiently resourced attack, one simply needs to understand their adversary’s defense budget (incident response arrangement, cyber insurance limits) and attack surface. Educational purposes only, not legal advice, don’t do this.
- sschueller 3y ago
  So DRM...
- jazzyjackson 3y ago
  Perhaps some kind of rootkit would be just...
  - account42 3y ago
    Delivered on a CD?
dano 3y ago
The answer is not palatable because it will take forever: contact your representatives in the federal government and lobby for copyright reform. IA might be luck they were not sued for more. I believe the MP3.com lawsuit is relevant reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMG_Recordings,_Inc._v._MP3.com,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMG_Recordings,_Inc._v._MP3.co....
- Andrex 3y ago
  Man, that's just a bad precedent. Space shifting should still apply to the internet and digital files.
- account42 3y ago
  Representative democracy is basically worhtless except for one or two issues that are important to a significant number of people. Not to mention that US copyright and especially enforcement against the internet archive also affects people who are not US citizens and can thus not even pretent that their vote matters here.
fsflover 3y ago
Support EFF: https://eff.org https://eff.org
chrisdhoover 3y ago
This thread brings back memories. It is refreshing to revisit. If you want to break away, unsubscribe from streaming, share with your friends, by used records, tapes, and cds.

What is the best way to let these greedy bastards know that we disagree with their conduct? Not buying records will only lead to them wrongfully claiming that they "lost revenue due to piracy".

karaterobot 3y ago

Don't let that stop you. They'll always have complaints.

xhkkffbf 3y ago

How? Set up your own record label and implement your wish list of better terms. If you're reading hacker news, there's a good chance you can do most of the coding for free/stock/spec. Then you can be like totally cool about piracy and drink all of the kool aid about how piracy is just a different form of promotion. My guess is that you'll come to the same conclusion as me: piracy destroys marketplaces. It forces the honest people to subsidize the free riders. If it were about something like food, I can understand a Jean-Val-Jean argument, but can anyone say with a straight face that they're stealing these fresh cuts just so their baby can listen to ccool music? I think you'll also come to a grudging recognition of just how expensive it can be to market music. I've always thought the percentages demanded by record companies were outrageous, but when I tried to duplicate their services on my own I quickly learned where the money goes. The IA is on a crash course to destroy the livlihood of artists, writers and other content creators. Don't ask me why. It doesn't make sense. They provide a nice service for society but now they're out on some crusade.

isykt 3y ago
> how expensive it can be to market music. Did you write this comment in 2001? The cost to produce and promote music has dropped to near zero. SoundCloud rappers have become millionaires. Billie Eilesh recorded her first album in her bedroom.
- raincole 3y ago
  Recording album is not marketing. If you think there is no marketing and PR people behinds those "grassroots superstars", you're utterly naive.
- sidlls 3y ago
  I'm dating someone who has visions of fame through his music. These "soundcloud rapper millionaires" and Billie Eilesh have so much more marketing spent on them than you might believe. It is hard to make it anywhere in that business without a lot of promotion, and that requires a lot of money. Initially often in the form of small payments that add up. A few hundred dollars here to be added to a playlist, a few hundred there for gig promotion...over time that turns into tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. For one artist. To even get a tiny start that may not lead anywhere.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Almost every business out there has costs associated with it.
    - sidlls 3y ago
      Yes. It seemed to me the GP's comment implied that those "rapper millionaires" and Billie Eilesh just made it big without having to pay those costs (or at least, not to the same degree). My point was a counterargument.
  - onetokeoverthe 3y ago
    [dead]
GhostWhisperer 3y ago
i grew up downloading everything from music to games, and windows xp, anything i could get my hands on these days i do pay for everything, music(spotify), movies(netflix, apple tv), games(steam, gog, itch.io, playstation), to software(app store, gh sponsor, opencollective) – i still pirate though; if netflix has an anime but happens to be dubbed on the wrong language, i'll hit the high seas and get me a copy dubbed in english, no regrets
iforgotpassword 3y ago
There's more between "being cool with piracy" and "thinking copyright should hold indefinitely". This is about 78rpm records ffs. All the artists are probably dead by now.
- redwall_hp 3y ago
  The artists were probably paid a one-off $50 to come into the studio and record, and the rentiers have profited off them ever since.
hirako2000 3y ago
A couple of fallacies in there. Distributors have - bended creative work property laws/precedents to maximise profits. - Been using marketing as barrier of entry. - many times used anti competitive practices. Paying consumers are not subsidising free riders. Given zero or an infinity of pirates the ticket price woụld not change. An effective anti piracy solution doesn't imply pirates would convert into paying consumers, some would of course, and ticket prices would most likely increase rather than decrease. Dubious parallel and nobody is forced. Taxes are forced subsidies. Aside those that's business models and market response.
BoxFour 3y ago
> The IA is on a crash course to destroy the livlihood of artists, writers and other content creators Every single artist mentioned by name here has long since passed away, and in some cases even their children have passed away.

satao 3y ago

Stop voting in capitalistic assholes who value intelectual and property rights over everything else.

cscurmudgeon 3y ago
In a true free market, there won’t be govt enforcement of IP.
- raincole 3y ago
  In a true free market we'll be hiring militias to protect our properties. Or more likely, be hired as one.
  - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
    Glad we agree we are not in a pure capitalistic society.
kmeisthax 3y ago
Unfortunately you can't vote None of the Above :/ Support among the US political class for copyright and patent law runs so deep that the main argument for untangling our economy from China's is not "they undercut US labor" or "they manipulate their currency" but "they steal our IP". An interesting choice of words, because that's an exclusive 'we'[0]. US voters have little need for copyrights and patents beyond ensuring that creative works get made. But the US political class is utterly dependent on their continued existence. BTW, this even extends to Trumpism. Trump was very vocal about China stealing "our IP." The US economy is structured such that you cannot become rich without owning copyrights, patents, oil fields, or real estate. Everything else will be thrown into the abyss of partial post-scarcity. [0] In some languages (not English) there's an inclusive 'we' and an exclusive 'we'. The latter would be used with the same implication as, say, "We've won the lottery - except for you."
- sidlls 3y ago
  I'm not sure if you meant "you cannot become rich without owning copyrights, patents, oil fields, or real estate" literally or not, but it's not really true in any case. There are plenty of people (doctors, dentists, lawyers, software engineers, small business owners) who become wealthy without owning any of those things. Not as wealthy as those who do, perhaps, but wealthy nonetheless. I'm one of them--a lucky IPO that occurred a few years after I started working at my current employer turned me from an indebted paycheck-to-paycheck engineer into someone who could retire tomorrow and still live a decent middle-class lifestyle on my investments. I didn't own real estate until I after I got rich.

isykt 3y ago

A brick through a window used to be a common way to make a message known.

lakomen 3y ago
They have so many windows nowadays though ;) in too many cities

echelon 3y ago

Build AI music tools. Make it easy for the next generation of artists and create a Cambrian explosion of new music to wash out the old, copyright encumbered works.

jacquesm 3y ago
New crappy music.
steroids33331 3y ago
[flagged]

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Ransomware with no key provided from a jurisdiction that won’t extradite if discussing threat modeling around generic org weaknesses. Everyone is vulnerable to a sufficiently resourced attack, one simply needs to understand their adversary’s defense budget (incident response arrangement, cyber insurance limits) and attack surface. Educational purposes only, not legal advice, don’t do this.

sschueller 3y ago
So DRM...
jazzyjackson 3y ago
Perhaps some kind of rootkit would be just...
- account42 3y ago
  Delivered on a CD?

dano 3y ago

The answer is not palatable because it will take forever: contact your representatives in the federal government and lobby for copyright reform. IA might be luck they were not sued for more. I believe the MP3.com lawsuit is relevant reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMG_Recordings,_Inc._v._MP3.com,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMG_Recordings,_Inc._v._MP3.co....

Andrex 3y ago
Man, that's just a bad precedent. Space shifting should still apply to the internet and digital files.
account42 3y ago
Representative democracy is basically worhtless except for one or two issues that are important to a significant number of people. Not to mention that US copyright and especially enforcement against the internet archive also affects people who are not US citizens and can thus not even pretent that their vote matters here.

fsflover 3y ago

Support EFF: https://eff.org https://eff.org

chrisdhoover 3y ago

This thread brings back memories. It is refreshing to revisit. If you want to break away, unsubscribe from streaming, share with your friends, by used records, tapes, and cds.