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You're right that I am responding to very limited information, and of course everyone is fully at liberty to ignore my opinion. That said, how would you descri

You're right that I am responding to very limited information, and of course everyone is fully at liberty to ignore my opinion. That said, how would you describe a person (particularly a caregiver) who causes others to walk on eggshells because of their random unfounded outbursts, and refuses to back down when given reasonable explanations for the things they have become upset about? And not just once or twice but often enough that it has had a measurable effect on OP's behaviour. That sounds abusive to me. Again though, as you pointed out, it's not appropriate for me to continue to speculate on this; I just wanted to elaborate on my original comment to make clear my reasoning.

ilyt 3y ago
"A man that doesn't want his kid to get into alcohol/drugs and worries too much" ? That's pretty far from abusive
- danparsonson 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - lifeisstillgood 3y ago
    I think it's worth mentioning that you seem to be in an argument that I see again and again. I am mostly on your side here - it is not for the child to work around the parent and this is a sea chnage in (western?) psychology that is filtering through to even idiots like me. And yea it is part of the culture war we are (always) going through. So yes, we need to up the game on parenting and personal responsibility- it's going to be a tough ride as we find out just how bad most of our families are - but the upside is good too. However I think we need to also find different words - abuse is a strong term. And most of the reaction I think you are getting here is reaction to specific words as opposed to your philosophy
    - danparsonson 3y ago
      Thank you, yes I think you're right - an unfortunate choice of word on my part it seems.
  - bonoboTP 3y ago
    Someone in the age bracket where many of their peers are already smoking needs to learn some valuable skills in how to present their case. At 16-17, they are not exactly "a child". That said, it can be incredibly frustrating to talk to people (e.g. parents) whose style of thinking is to guess based on very limited information and then sincerely believe and stick to that guess as if it was brought down by Moses on clay tablets. I know such people, and it's not even just personal topics, but discussing any story in the news or any rumor they overheard, they immediately paint some picture in their head, fill in the blanks based on a guess, follow a chain of reasoning absurdly far without proper evidence, working themselves up in the process, and then they are utterly unreceptive to any alternative explanations. So yes, I agree this is bad and we should try to listen till the end, defer judgment, be comfortable with "I don't know the details, so I don't have a well-founded opinion here" etc. But such meta-cognition and reflection on one's own beliefs don't come naturally to all, and they may have been punished for it in the past, it being seen as a kind of indecisive unconfident weakness, so they cultivate a persona that must always know, must always have an opinion and a definite view on everything. This may not always rise to the level of actual "abuse" and indeed your knee-jerk pattern-matching response to label it as such is ironically itself an example of imagining all the details and condemning a person in the story you know nothing about. Maybe OP should have frontloaded a bunch of disclaimers like "I'm on great terms with my parents and we love each other, but there are some frustrating aspects in our communications, but we are doing our best to meet in the middle. That said, here's a story:", so that you don't jump to conclusions.
    - danparsonson 3y ago
      Thank you - point taken.

ilyt 3y ago

"A man that doesn't want his kid to get into alcohol/drugs and worries too much" ? That's pretty far from abusive

danparsonson 3y ago
[flagged]
- lifeisstillgood 3y ago
  I think it's worth mentioning that you seem to be in an argument that I see again and again. I am mostly on your side here - it is not for the child to work around the parent and this is a sea chnage in (western?) psychology that is filtering through to even idiots like me. And yea it is part of the culture war we are (always) going through. So yes, we need to up the game on parenting and personal responsibility- it's going to be a tough ride as we find out just how bad most of our families are - but the upside is good too. However I think we need to also find different words - abuse is a strong term. And most of the reaction I think you are getting here is reaction to specific words as opposed to your philosophy
  - danparsonson 3y ago
    Thank you, yes I think you're right - an unfortunate choice of word on my part it seems.
- bonoboTP 3y ago
  Someone in the age bracket where many of their peers are already smoking needs to learn some valuable skills in how to present their case. At 16-17, they are not exactly "a child". That said, it can be incredibly frustrating to talk to people (e.g. parents) whose style of thinking is to guess based on very limited information and then sincerely believe and stick to that guess as if it was brought down by Moses on clay tablets. I know such people, and it's not even just personal topics, but discussing any story in the news or any rumor they overheard, they immediately paint some picture in their head, fill in the blanks based on a guess, follow a chain of reasoning absurdly far without proper evidence, working themselves up in the process, and then they are utterly unreceptive to any alternative explanations. So yes, I agree this is bad and we should try to listen till the end, defer judgment, be comfortable with "I don't know the details, so I don't have a well-founded opinion here" etc. But such meta-cognition and reflection on one's own beliefs don't come naturally to all, and they may have been punished for it in the past, it being seen as a kind of indecisive unconfident weakness, so they cultivate a persona that must always know, must always have an opinion and a definite view on everything. This may not always rise to the level of actual "abuse" and indeed your knee-jerk pattern-matching response to label it as such is ironically itself an example of imagining all the details and condemning a person in the story you know nothing about. Maybe OP should have frontloaded a bunch of disclaimers like "I'm on great terms with my parents and we love each other, but there are some frustrating aspects in our communications, but we are doing our best to meet in the middle. That said, here's a story:", so that you don't jump to conclusions.
  - danparsonson 3y ago
    Thank you - point taken.