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Yeah, sorry, you're just describing your own moral/social code. It's honorable and I happen to generally agree with your view of how folks should interact. (I

Yeah, sorry, you're just describing your own moral/social code. It's honorable and I happen to generally agree with your view of how folks should interact. (I also know it costs nothing for people to call for me to be killed because I like dudes, and I know that that impacts my quality of life and health, but those sorts of things never matter to absolutionists who never seem to have dealt with serious concern trolls, threats, implicit violence, etc. Which apparently I'm supposed to tolerate for 35+ years? Started out with seeing Fred Phelps family using free speech to draw crude depictions of gay men in intimate positions, and talking about God killing Americans on 9/11 because of tolerating gay people. Carrying signs and protesting at places such that I would see them regularly. From 5 years old til 18 when I fled that red state and never looked back. Imagine being in a conservative state, not knowing another single gay person besides Ellen on the TV, surrounded by a bunch of conservative, and the jerks that even the conservatives won't claim, all telling me that I'm completely worthless, or the reason American soldiers die. As a 12 year old, scared he might be gay. But hey, it's just speech, that couldn't possibly be incredibly damaging for a child to see during his formative years!! Nahhhh) Aaaanyway, moreover, what you're describing has nothing to do with the protections afforded by the actual First Amendment, which is about speech free of governmental prosecution. So fucking done with this conversation. I should've never made the joke so I could've lied to myself and pretended that people might've actually educated themselves on this topic. And fwiw, I am fine with the ACLU defending the Phelps's right to free speech. I mean, really, I have some respect for them now. At least they actually follow scripture and have conviction unlike virtually every other modern Abrahamic religion that just is awful until about 8 years after the needle has moved, and then they change their view arbitrarily to try to stay popular and relevant given the changing surrounding social norms.

robomartin 3y ago
> speech free of governmental prosecution Precisely. People have created all kinds of imaginary meanings attached to "freedom of speech" that clearly have nothing whatsoever to do with reality. BTW, it sounds like what you went through wasn't, to put it mildly, pleasant at all. This is why I don't think a monochromatic culture (in all possible senses of that might represent, racial, cultural, ideological, educational, etc.) is good for society. People have similar experiences --at different levels of intensity-- across a range of monocultural communities. For example, I know people whos careers were destroyed by being openly religious in the context of overwhelmingly leftist industry/company. Given the extreme levels of polarization today, as an atheist and Classical Liberal myself, sometimes I feel it is hard to find good fit anywhere. Sometimes it is much easier and healthier to shut up and let people be the kind of bigot they choose to be. The good news is that societies and cultures mix and become more tolerant over time. I have had the experience of being invited to attend service at a large-ish evangelical church with a small group of atheists. We were welcome, the conversations were interesting and framed in respect. That's progress. The bad news is, well, it takes time.

robomartin 3y ago

> speech free of governmental prosecution Precisely. People have created all kinds of imaginary meanings attached to "freedom of speech" that clearly have nothing whatsoever to do with reality. BTW, it sounds like what you went through wasn't, to put it mildly, pleasant at all. This is why I don't think a monochromatic culture (in all possible senses of that might represent, racial, cultural, ideological, educational, etc.) is good for society. People have similar experiences --at different levels of intensity-- across a range of monocultural communities. For example, I know people whos careers were destroyed by being openly religious in the context of overwhelmingly leftist industry/company. Given the extreme levels of polarization today, as an atheist and Classical Liberal myself, sometimes I feel it is hard to find good fit anywhere. Sometimes it is much easier and healthier to shut up and let people be the kind of bigot they choose to be. The good news is that societies and cultures mix and become more tolerant over time. I have had the experience of being invited to attend service at a large-ish evangelical church with a small group of atheists. We were welcome, the conversations were interesting and framed in respect. That's progress. The bad news is, well, it takes time.