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This is a topic near and dear to my heart. The historic positive, and massive, effect beavers had on America's ecology and hydrology are hard to understate. The

by xoa 3y ago

This is a topic near and dear to my heart. The historic positive, and massive, effect beavers had on America's ecology and hydrology are hard to understate. There were once hundreds of millions of them, slowing the flow of water and resisting storms, causing far more to go into the ground, creating safe rich habitats for a variety of other plants and animals. They're natural self-replicating terraformers and really could have a major impact on responding to water problems. I highly recommend the book "Eager: The Surprising, Secret Life of Beavers and Why They Matter" [0]. Of course having nearly wiped them out in the fur trade we've since built some of our society around a beaver-eliminated environment and so there it's going to be artificially harder in some cases to have them return naturally if it will result in water over infrastructure. But where they can live we should want them, and there are clever new management methods like Beaver Deceivers [1] that can more effectively handle water levels without harming/removing the beavers (which is generally a temporary solution anyway since they follow water paths and new ones will appear before long). Would be great to see more governments embrace that. ---- 0: https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/eager-paperback/ https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/eager-paperback/ 1: https://beaverdeceivers.com/ https://beaverdeceivers.com/

sandworm101 3y ago
Beaver deceivers work to minimize their impact on the local environment. They specifically work against all the one thing beavers really provide: beaver ponds. Eliminating or minimizing those ponds directly denies the benifits beavers provide to the landscape.
- xoa 3y ago
  I don't understand what point you're trying to make with such a ridiculously broad statement? "The landscape" encompasses a big area. It is not possible to simply order every arbitrary road or building in the country that would be impacted by a return to historic ecology moved. We struggle right now to even get people moved out of or adapt to known existing flood plains, even after they've been flooded! If we'd built with that in mind from the start that would be ideal but obviously that's, well, water over (or under) the dam now. The point of options like beaver deceivers is aid in coexistence, and to deploy them with precision in places where it's really infeasible to adapt (at least for now) to a returning beaver presence. That way water level can be managed without (repeatedly) killing them, particularly as the beaver population overall away from denser human areas is allowed to return towards a natural level. And even when used they're not binary, they can allow some controlled pond formation, even if not quite as big as the beavers would like. That still leaves the beavers in some cases able to live there for a time, or else move on upstream to better areas. Sure it's a compromise solution, but given the long standing default has been to shoot/trap/poison them it's a valuable tool towards getting things back on track.
  - tappaseater 3y ago
    I don't understand the reply either. The link shows clearly how it works and that it's about managing water levels, not pond elimination. Many times these ponds are secondary, and extra care (in some case by regulations) is needed for primary ponds where beavers need deeper water to survive through winter. Another solution I have seen is the A-frame trap which blocks the beaver from damming the culvert and takes longer for them to build around the trap. Even when they do, which they will, when the water rises it spills over. From a maintenance perspective, they are easier to clear than clog in the pipe. As a species we had better get smart about coexisting with these creatures. Some say the water issues out west are related to the extermination beavers, and their reintroduction will do much to replenish ground water and create natural reservoirs. But that doesn't mean we we should antagonize the humans by insisting we allow roads to wash out and flooding to occur. We need compromises.
  - sandworm101 3y ago
    >> order every arbitrary road or building in the country that would be impacted by a return to historic ecology moved. Tell that to Florida. Beavers flooding a neighborhood is little different than a hurricane or a river bursting its banks. The real question is whether such incompatible human activity should have been allowed in such places to being with. Pushing the suburbs a few hundred yards back from waterways seems a small price considering the benefits of a properly-wild waterway has to offer the wider community.
    - pixl97 3y ago
      Money before ethics and sense. I see developers slapping houses in places no one in their right mind should put them. Then in the next few years after even more houses provide higher run off rates up stream those houses get flooded and they are all "no one could have possibly foreseen this!" Gets annoying to see after a while.
throw0101a 3y ago
> They're natural self-replicating terraformers […] So they should be on the first mission to Mars?
- danparsonson 3y ago
  Who else is going to clear all the trees?

by xoa 3y ago

sandworm101 3y ago

Beaver deceivers work to minimize their impact on the local environment. They specifically work against all the one thing beavers really provide: beaver ponds. Eliminating or minimizing those ponds directly denies the benifits beavers provide to the landscape.

xoa 3y ago
I don't understand what point you're trying to make with such a ridiculously broad statement? "The landscape" encompasses a big area. It is not possible to simply order every arbitrary road or building in the country that would be impacted by a return to historic ecology moved. We struggle right now to even get people moved out of or adapt to known existing flood plains, even after they've been flooded! If we'd built with that in mind from the start that would be ideal but obviously that's, well, water over (or under) the dam now. The point of options like beaver deceivers is aid in coexistence, and to deploy them with precision in places where it's really infeasible to adapt (at least for now) to a returning beaver presence. That way water level can be managed without (repeatedly) killing them, particularly as the beaver population overall away from denser human areas is allowed to return towards a natural level. And even when used they're not binary, they can allow some controlled pond formation, even if not quite as big as the beavers would like. That still leaves the beavers in some cases able to live there for a time, or else move on upstream to better areas. Sure it's a compromise solution, but given the long standing default has been to shoot/trap/poison them it's a valuable tool towards getting things back on track.
- tappaseater 3y ago
  I don't understand the reply either. The link shows clearly how it works and that it's about managing water levels, not pond elimination. Many times these ponds are secondary, and extra care (in some case by regulations) is needed for primary ponds where beavers need deeper water to survive through winter. Another solution I have seen is the A-frame trap which blocks the beaver from damming the culvert and takes longer for them to build around the trap. Even when they do, which they will, when the water rises it spills over. From a maintenance perspective, they are easier to clear than clog in the pipe. As a species we had better get smart about coexisting with these creatures. Some say the water issues out west are related to the extermination beavers, and their reintroduction will do much to replenish ground water and create natural reservoirs. But that doesn't mean we we should antagonize the humans by insisting we allow roads to wash out and flooding to occur. We need compromises.
- sandworm101 3y ago
  >> order every arbitrary road or building in the country that would be impacted by a return to historic ecology moved. Tell that to Florida. Beavers flooding a neighborhood is little different than a hurricane or a river bursting its banks. The real question is whether such incompatible human activity should have been allowed in such places to being with. Pushing the suburbs a few hundred yards back from waterways seems a small price considering the benefits of a properly-wild waterway has to offer the wider community.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    Money before ethics and sense. I see developers slapping houses in places no one in their right mind should put them. Then in the next few years after even more houses provide higher run off rates up stream those houses get flooded and they are all "no one could have possibly foreseen this!" Gets annoying to see after a while.

throw0101a 3y ago

> They're natural self-replicating terraformers […] So they should be on the first mission to Mars?

danparsonson 3y ago
Who else is going to clear all the trees?