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Science is a human endeavour and therefore it's always political.

• keiferski 3y ago
  In some sense sure, but that doesn’t imply that scientists ought to function as political actors - especially when doing so puts the actual practice of science at risk.
  • 77pt77 3y ago
    It cannot be helped. Is always takes precedence over ought.
    • keiferski 3y ago
      What can’t be helped? Your comment is too vague for me to understand what you’re getting at. As I said in my original comment, I think scientists are being put in political positions because of a failure of culture/people/society to care sufficiently about philosophy and religion. The solution to this seems obvious to me.
      • pixl97 3y ago
        One, what does religion have to do with those? Two, individuals are political therefore their politics bleeds into science. If you think there is an obvious solution then you are most assuredly incorrect. Understanding power dynamics is part of philosophy, not something that is separate from it.
        • keiferski 3y ago
          The entire intellectual history of the past 3,000+ years has been shaped by “religion”, which as a separate concept is a fairly recent phenomenon. Everything from individual rights, the value of Truth, the concept of secularism, and a million other things can be directly traced to conflicts and developments of religion. Part of the problem that I alluded to is the refusal of many intelligent people to recognize this. Secondly, there is a major difference between scientists having political beliefs and scientists being put in political positions where they make decisions for society at large. These are not the same thing. Thirdly, the obvious solution was to make people care more about philosophy and religion and not continue to put scientists into a political position where they are incentivized to quash dissent.
• ekianjo 3y ago
  Oh astronomy and black holes influence everyday policy? Do you enjoy blanket statements much?
  • 77pt77 3y ago
    The process of studying those subjects is very strongly political. Stop assuming bad faith and stick to the point.
    • guerrilla 3y ago
      Counterpoint: No it's not.
      • oneshtein 3y ago
        «Big Bang» model of Universe evolution has religious origin. It's politics.
        • brabel 3y ago
          We look at the movements of body in the sky, we find that they are pretty clearly expanding, and given that if we assume that this has been going on for a long time (and there's very little reason to believe otherwise given what we know about physics), we can clearly see that there must have been a moment in time where everything was much closer together, up to an infinitely small point... this is basically what Big Bang says. Can you please tell me what religious origin there may be in this??
          • ModernMech 3y ago
            Why are we looking at the sky in the first place?
            • brabel 3y ago
              Humans are curious. We've always wanted to know what those little dots of light in the sky are. We used to make up stories to explain them... but now we don't have to, we can figure it out using our knowledge of matter and physics, make predictions to check whether those are correct, basically the scientific method... religion is not necessary to explain why we look at the sky, nor why we feel we have to be decent people for that matter, or why we would like to know where everything came from and where we're going. Simply being consciuous and rational and curious is enogh for all that.
• Knee_Pain 3y ago
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• josephg 3y ago
  > therefore it's always political Therefore it will always contain politics. Just like everything humans do. Just like software engineering. But that doesn't mean the technical aspects of software aren't also important. All the political insights in the world won't tell you how to make a webpage or how to build a telescope. Tell me there's politics involved and I still have no idea what goes on in your research lab or your software team. These sort of reductive, absolutist claims only sound wise when you're young. They basically never tell you anything useful about how to act in the world. Years ago a friend of mine would rant at length to anyone who would listen about how everything in human society is based on economic incentives. He's right! But I could easily make the same argument about all sorts of things. Everything in human society is also about status. Or politics. Or the myths we tell about ourselves (like religion and science). Everything can be explained by evolutionary biology. Or the tribe, or the individual. Or how children are raised. And so on. There are so many important perspectives to have. But if you really want to know what goes on amongst scientists, there's no alternative but to spend time talking to them. You're so much more right, and more wrong than you think. The details are, also, everything.
  • 77pt77 3y ago
    >But if you really want to know what goes on amongst scientists, there's no alternative but to spend time talking to them. I guess I can always have a monologue...