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There is also an aspect where it goes from science to policy, and there is this step where certain parts of society simple state: "how dare you think you know b
by toshk 3y ago
There is also an aspect where it goes from science to policy, and there is this step where certain parts of society simple state: "how dare you think you know better then x, who studied y for x amount of year, or this scientist".
It happens here too. During Covid, also here the lab leak theory was talked as a crazy non-scientific conspiracy.
- ekianjo 3y agoActual scientists proposed the lab leak early on before they were prompty shut down by the Fauci establishment and the fake Lancet
- toshk 3y agoCommon sense proposed the lab leak. Was absurd and scary how easily it was dismissed in pretty much the entire Western media, not only the US. Even this forum got subjected to it.
- HKH2 3y agoWell it's potentially racist to some, so common sense has to go out the window.
- ekianjo 3y agoThe fact that labs exist in other countries with people of different ethnicities is not racist
- Nasrudith 3y agoBut the fact it was basically a recycling of several racist "those filthy foreigners are responsible for disease" tropes along with "scheming orientals" tropes.
- jkhdigital 3y agoNo the argument is nonsensical on its face. A lab leak supposedly recycles those tropes but emergence from an unsanitary wet market does not?
- edgyquant 3y agoSeems more like you projecting some racist stuff no one else was thinking of.
- didntcheck 3y agoAs opposed to the "approved" knowledge that it came from foreigners with poor hygiene eating strange animals?
- Arainach 3y agoIt's not "potentially" racist. It was being spouted by racists and directly leading to violence against asians in America and elsewhere. When this behavior is seen, and with the standard lack of any nuance in both reporting and social media, making such claims publicly if you're less than 95% certain is irresponsible.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- lelanthran 3y agoWhat makes you certain that there was less than a 1 in 20 chance that the lab leak theory was wrong at the time? After all, percentage fbtou are going to wait for every theory to be 19/20 chance of being correct before you announce it as a theory, no theory would have been announced at all for COVID
- Arainach 3y agoYou can't prove a negative. Again, you are ignoring my point - most science isn't trying to make claims already being used to incite violence. There is a higher standard before publicly discussing such things.
- Slava_Propanei 3y ago[dead]
- local_issues 3y agoThe lab leak theory was not being touted by the Black people who beat up Asians in droves the last 3 years. The idea that it was Trumpists was a conspiracy theory not borne out by stats
- jkhdigital 3y agoIt was not just “common sense”. I was reading in-depth articles about the GoF line of research and all the characters involved (Ralph Baric, Shi Zhengli, etc) back in March/April 2020. Basically the entire body of circumstantial evidence pointing to the lab leak hypothesis was known and reported within months of the start of the pandemic. Every in-depth article written since then has been mostly a rehashing of what various bloggers and alternative news sites had already published.
- wait_what 3y agoThere is a huge reason to downplay it, especially in the USA, until things could cool around it or things could be worked out 100% factually and it is a science related - basic Psychology. That reason? Hate Crimes - https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027236499/anti-asian-hate-crimes-assaults-pandemic-incidents-aapi https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027236499/anti-asian-hate-cr... Even in my small town of 7000, an Indian lady was assaulted to "get back at those Chinese for giving us COVID (which doesn't exist and is just made up by the lame stream media)".
- joenot443 3y agoI don't think we should reject reality just because we're concerned others can't handle that reality without reacting violently. The notion that we should downplay certain ideas because of crimes committed by people that misunderstand those ideas is not something I can get behind, sorry. Do you post on reddit a lot? The phrasing of your argument and the intermittent spacing has that reddity vibe to me.
- Shugarl 3y agoGP didn't suggest to reject reality out of concern for others. He said we should make sure to be 100% certain of what the facts are before asserting what reality is to the public, especially when it comes to sensitive subjects. The alternative is to say that reality is A, have a lot of people face (just or unjust) repercussions, then say "Oopsie! Turns out we were dead wrong". The damage is already done by that point.
- edgyquant 3y agoNo this isn’t a good reason to shutdown actual scientific discussion and this whole thing felt like a red herring specifically played up to shut down dissent. Anti-Asian hate crimes are a real thing, but both black and white Americans endure them at a higher rate[1]. Further, these types of attacks went up across the board during the pandemic however Asian based hate crimes represented only ~8% of these attacks with most other ethnic groups having way more attacks targeted at them[2]. Seems to me like an example of cherry picked statistics being used for political gain. Asian hate crimes being something that became way more common during the pandemic is simply not grounded in reality. https://www.statista.com/statistics/737681/number-of-racial-hate-crimes-in-the-us-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/737681/number-of-racial-... https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2021-hate-crime-statistics https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2021-hate-crime-stati...
- jquery 3y agoAs someone who believed the lab leak theory from the start, I don't ever remember it being treated as a "crazy non scientific conspiracy". I do remember some people pushing the leak theory as if it was 100% proven and them getting called out. I also don't have any hard evidence for the lab leak theory so I'm open to being wrong. I'm just suspicious because China hasn't been forthcoming. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lab_leak_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lab_leak_theory
- ricksunny 3y ago> I don't ever remember it being treated as a "crazy non scientific conspiracy Consider that this treatment may have taken place in the editorial boards & newsrooms of the outlets you read before the debate ever had the opportunity to reach to your attention. Perhaps epistemology is not just individual in scope, but societal. Indeed, I also didn't remember it being treated in Jan-Oct 2020 as a 'crazy non-scientific conspiracy'. But we know today, (reference any journalist talking about origins on Twitter) that lab leak was being treated amongst themselves as a wild-eyed conspiracy theory
- jkhdigital 3y agoI also felt it was the most likely explanation from the first time I read about it (March/April 2020) but even if it was “just one hypothesis” here’s the thing: if true, it has profound implications for the future of humanity. It’s not like this is just an academic question about what killed the dinosaurs. It doesn’t matter whether it can be proven; the fact that we consider it in the realm of possibility means we need to figure out what can be done to ensure the next “hypothetical” leak isn’t even worse.
- licebmi__at__ 3y agoDoes it really matter? I mean we did had deadly pandemics before biolabs were a thing. Other than blaming China because that’s what Americans want to do now, I haven’t heard anything interesting about what to do if the lab leak hypotheses is right.
- ModernMech 3y agoI’ll take that over “how dare you question X YouTuber or Y politician or Z super pac who has been “studying” this since March 2020” any day.
- spookthesunset 3y agoSo basically all of the politicians who enacted crazy covid mandates for three years?
- gilbetron 3y agoFor being shutdown and canceled, the lab leak theory is and has been talked about a shocking amount for the past 3+ years. Rarely a day goes by here that it hasn't been talked about, especially in 2020.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]