3 ms·

That's kinda what an emerging phenomena is.

by csomar 3y ago

bluefirebrand 3y ago
My point is that it's still the result of human action, it's purposeful and intentional. It's just not conspiracy. It's not emergent out of nowhere. It's emergent out of shitty people being in positions of power and influence.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >it's still the result of human action, it's purposeful and intentional. Orcheastras imply a conductor, a central figure with the score to direct their symphony to play. 1000 conductors means there is no conductor. Each one may have a purpose and intention, but a conspiracy implies... well, conspiring. That isn't a conspiracy, it's a mob. Even if somehow the symphony manages to make a melody out of the madness, it's not a result of a conspiracy because it never happened.
  - JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
    You are doing incredible mental contortions to avoid acknowledging the concept of a cartel. When OPEC raises global oil prices, that's the result of a collective, negotiated action, and a conspiracy.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      I'm simply invoking Hanlon's razor. I've seen enough of the sausage to acknowledge that 95% of these "top brass" are just making it up as they go along.
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    > 1000 conductors means there is no conductor. 1000 conductors means that there is 1000 conductors and 1000 orchestras. They've all done their research, and they've all independently decided to have their orchestras play mostly the same songs as all the other orchestras. They've arrived at this decision by copying what the most successful orchestras are doing, reading in orchestra magazines about best practice for orchestras, going to orchestra conferences, talking to other conductors over expensive meals and games of golf, etc I agree it's not a conspiracy. There's no big room where all the conductors get together and all agree which songs to play. But it's not accidental either. Each conductor is seeking the best song list, and by using the resources available to them they are all coming to similar conclusions. I think I've tortured this metaphor enough. I just do not want the human element to be abstracted from the equation here. Yes, I agree there's no conspiracy. Ultimately this crap is "emergent" from the systems in place. Those systems were built by humans, and then the "emergent" behavior is just humans concluding "based on this system in place this is the best set of actions I can take". Those humans then are successful so other humans try to copy them.
    - galangalalgol 3y ago
      There is a word for it, stigmergy. It is just conspiracy minus the direct communication. A network where nodes each behave according to their observations rather than communicating. Termites don't conspire either.
dv_dt 3y ago
Not if it’s being orchestrated on lines of class And wealth

That's kinda what an emerging phenomena is.

by csomar 3y ago

That's kinda what an emerging phenomena is.

My point is that it's still the result of human action, it's purposeful and intentional. It's just not conspiracy. It's not emergent out of nowhere. It's emergent out of shitty people being in positions of power and influence.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
>it's still the result of human action, it's purposeful and intentional. Orcheastras imply a conductor, a central figure with the score to direct their symphony to play. 1000 conductors means there is no conductor. Each one may have a purpose and intention, but a conspiracy implies... well, conspiring. That isn't a conspiracy, it's a mob. Even if somehow the symphony manages to make a melody out of the madness, it's not a result of a conspiracy because it never happened.
- JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
  You are doing incredible mental contortions to avoid acknowledging the concept of a cartel. When OPEC raises global oil prices, that's the result of a collective, negotiated action, and a conspiracy.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    I'm simply invoking Hanlon's razor. I've seen enough of the sausage to acknowledge that 95% of these "top brass" are just making it up as they go along.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  > 1000 conductors means there is no conductor. 1000 conductors means that there is 1000 conductors and 1000 orchestras. They've all done their research, and they've all independently decided to have their orchestras play mostly the same songs as all the other orchestras. They've arrived at this decision by copying what the most successful orchestras are doing, reading in orchestra magazines about best practice for orchestras, going to orchestra conferences, talking to other conductors over expensive meals and games of golf, etc I agree it's not a conspiracy. There's no big room where all the conductors get together and all agree which songs to play. But it's not accidental either. Each conductor is seeking the best song list, and by using the resources available to them they are all coming to similar conclusions. I think I've tortured this metaphor enough. I just do not want the human element to be abstracted from the equation here. Yes, I agree there's no conspiracy. Ultimately this crap is "emergent" from the systems in place. Those systems were built by humans, and then the "emergent" behavior is just humans concluding "based on this system in place this is the best set of actions I can take". Those humans then are successful so other humans try to copy them.
  - galangalalgol 3y ago
    There is a word for it, stigmergy. It is just conspiracy minus the direct communication. A network where nodes each behave according to their observations rather than communicating. Termites don't conspire either.

dv_dt 3y ago

Not if it’s being orchestrated on lines of class And wealth