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> "putting themselves in far more legal jeopardy." I have to disagree. The US govt and its national security state have done a pretty good job of persecuting M

> "putting themselves in far more legal jeopardy." I have to disagree. The US govt and its national security state have done a pretty good job of persecuting Manning, Assange and Snowden alike albeit in differing ways.

zirgs 3y ago
1. Manning is already free. 2. Snowden fled to Russia 3. Assange hasn't even been to the USA yet and he imprisoned himself for almost a decade in that embassy.
- tmoehle 3y ago
  Snowden did not flee to Russia. He was on his way to Berlin with a stop in Moscow, but before he was able to board the plane (if I remember correctly even before his plane landed in Moscow) the US revoked his passport so he couldn’t get on the plane to Berlin. It was not his choice to be stranded there.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    I think that those stories about him "being stranded" are bullshit and he always intended to flee to Russia. Flying to Berlin doesn't make sense. Germany is a NATO member and a US ally. He'd be extradited ASAP.
    - knorker 3y ago
      The US really did revoke his passport. You're saying the US government helped Snowden cover up his plans? That's some lizard people level conspiracy theory you got there.
      - zirgs 3y ago
        Yes, his passport was revoked - but now he has another one and he's still in Russia. As far as I know Russian citizens can travel to other countries.
        dijit 3y ago
        At this point why bother? He was in Russia 7 years when he finally applied and got a passport, his (now) wife was pregnant, it was the height of COVID. Russia has also shown that they're not interfering with him as long as he doesn't speak about anything Russia is doing. Contrast that with his destination countries that he originally wanted to go to, all of which are also of course "enemies of the US" (which is the only reason he's safe there), one of which has been strongarmed by the US directly (Bolivian prime minister forced to land and be searched, breaking international law[0]) and one of which has already permitted one of it's refugees to be captured on sovereign soil. I should also add that a lot of countries would not grant asylum to a person who is in what they would consider a safe country. I know for instance it's a point of much contention in the UK that an asylum seeker must stop in the first safe country. Additionally, since Putin's "special military action" (invasion of another sovereign country) there actually are a lot of restrictions for Russian citizens travelling, both outbound and inbound. -- and even if you manage to wave away all of that: he isn't in a better position anywhere else and he still has to travel over US Allied countries to get there. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident
        knorker 3y ago
        That's a completely different topic, separated by 7 years. Back to what you said: > those stories about him "being stranded" are bullshit He really really was stranded. He had no passport, and the only place he could go without one would send him directly to prison without even a right to raise his defence of "public good" in his trial. So unless you're saying "he wasn't stranded, he could choose to go to prison forever", that's not really true. And as we later found out, the US would force even diplomatic planes to land and be searched for Snowden. Sweden was playing US lapdog with Assange, so presumably would be the case for Finland too, even if not NATO at the time.
  - myvoiceismypprt 3y ago
    @statedeptusa cancelled snowden's passport a day before he arrived in moscow (you can google) perhaps snowden flew to moscow once his passport was cancelled, with help from china, as part of a diversion
- DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
  Assange didn't "imprison himself." He had asylum, because the world's most powerful state was out to get him. It has even come out that the Trump administration seriously considered kidnapping or assassinating Assange. As it turns out, Assange's fears of being handed over to the US were 100% justified.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    He went into that embassy without an exit plan. What did he expect to happen? That everyone is going to forget about him if he sits there long enough or what? And he will be handed over to the USA sooner or later. The UK has already approved the extradition.
    - DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
      If I follow your comments, the journalists and random passer-by who were killed by gleeful American helicopter pilots in Baghdad are just collateral damage, and Assange is to blame for his own predicament and should just let the US have its way with him (maybe locking him up for life, or maybe taking pity, as the President wishes). Apparently, all is fine and this is how it should be.

zirgs 3y ago

1. Manning is already free. 2. Snowden fled to Russia 3. Assange hasn't even been to the USA yet and he imprisoned himself for almost a decade in that embassy.

tmoehle 3y ago
Snowden did not flee to Russia. He was on his way to Berlin with a stop in Moscow, but before he was able to board the plane (if I remember correctly even before his plane landed in Moscow) the US revoked his passport so he couldn’t get on the plane to Berlin. It was not his choice to be stranded there.
- zirgs 3y ago
  I think that those stories about him "being stranded" are bullshit and he always intended to flee to Russia. Flying to Berlin doesn't make sense. Germany is a NATO member and a US ally. He'd be extradited ASAP.
  - knorker 3y ago
    The US really did revoke his passport. You're saying the US government helped Snowden cover up his plans? That's some lizard people level conspiracy theory you got there.
    - zirgs 3y ago
      Yes, his passport was revoked - but now he has another one and he's still in Russia. As far as I know Russian citizens can travel to other countries.
      - dijit 3y ago
        At this point why bother? He was in Russia 7 years when he finally applied and got a passport, his (now) wife was pregnant, it was the height of COVID. Russia has also shown that they're not interfering with him as long as he doesn't speak about anything Russia is doing. Contrast that with his destination countries that he originally wanted to go to, all of which are also of course "enemies of the US" (which is the only reason he's safe there), one of which has been strongarmed by the US directly (Bolivian prime minister forced to land and be searched, breaking international law[0]) and one of which has already permitted one of it's refugees to be captured on sovereign soil. I should also add that a lot of countries would not grant asylum to a person who is in what they would consider a safe country. I know for instance it's a point of much contention in the UK that an asylum seeker must stop in the first safe country. Additionally, since Putin's "special military action" (invasion of another sovereign country) there actually are a lot of restrictions for Russian citizens travelling, both outbound and inbound. -- and even if you manage to wave away all of that: he isn't in a better position anywhere else and he still has to travel over US Allied countries to get there. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident
      - knorker 3y ago
        That's a completely different topic, separated by 7 years. Back to what you said: > those stories about him "being stranded" are bullshit He really really was stranded. He had no passport, and the only place he could go without one would send him directly to prison without even a right to raise his defence of "public good" in his trial. So unless you're saying "he wasn't stranded, he could choose to go to prison forever", that's not really true. And as we later found out, the US would force even diplomatic planes to land and be searched for Snowden. Sweden was playing US lapdog with Assange, so presumably would be the case for Finland too, even if not NATO at the time.
- myvoiceismypprt 3y ago
  @statedeptusa cancelled snowden's passport a day before he arrived in moscow (you can google) perhaps snowden flew to moscow once his passport was cancelled, with help from china, as part of a diversion
DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
Assange didn't "imprison himself." He had asylum, because the world's most powerful state was out to get him. It has even come out that the Trump administration seriously considered kidnapping or assassinating Assange. As it turns out, Assange's fears of being handed over to the US were 100% justified.
- zirgs 3y ago
  He went into that embassy without an exit plan. What did he expect to happen? That everyone is going to forget about him if he sits there long enough or what? And he will be handed over to the USA sooner or later. The UK has already approved the extradition.
  - DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
    If I follow your comments, the journalists and random passer-by who were killed by gleeful American helicopter pilots in Baghdad are just collateral damage, and Assange is to blame for his own predicament and should just let the US have its way with him (maybe locking him up for life, or maybe taking pity, as the President wishes). Apparently, all is fine and this is how it should be.