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They are going nowhere. Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. Given the ratio between the weight of

They are going nowhere. Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. Given the ratio between the weight of the motorcycle and the weight of the passenger/s they are extemely efficient, having the whole passenger vehicles switch to motorcycles would be even better than have them switch to 3000 pounds EVs. The vast majority of people are too coward to drive them unfortunately

serf 3y ago
>The vast majority of people are too coward to drive them unfortunately you could frame regular motorcycles the same way. i'm not sure 'coward' is the right word either given the statistics. >Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. people aren't only into EVs for the environmental aspects; they're unique and offer a unique experience.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
  > > people aren't only into EVs for the environmental aspects; they're unique and offer a unique experience. Automotive is a 150yr old industry, you will not re-invent the wheel. Progress has plateued in the 1970-80s as far as fun goes. When Americans come to Europe and try the Vespas and the Lambrettas , that's about the same fun upgrade as going from an ICE which does 0-60 in 8s to an EVs which does it in 4s, only the Vespa experience costs 20$ and the Vespa itself 1000$. for some reason they come back home and completely forget about it and decide to fork 50,000$ for an EV instead
- jameson71 3y ago
  The statistics show that most people can’t handle a motor vehicle safely.
bradly 3y ago
> Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. There are other reasons to want an electric motorcycles besides low emissions.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
  Motorcycles are the best vehicles as far as acceleration and weight/power ratio is concerned, they fare even better in the price/quickness and price/fun ratio. A 45,000$ Kawasaki H2R has won a drag race against a RedBull F1 car, an F16, a Gulfstream G600 a Bugatti, a TeslaP100..[0] By orders of magnitude the Kawasaki was the cheapest vehicle in that race and smoked them all..but that bike can only be driven to the limit by the 1% of riders, the ones with the best skills and massive balls. What's the point of an EV motorbike? 0-60mph in 2.2s is not enough? Want 1.5s? Cool but what's the point of numbers for numbers sake if people aren't ever pushing it to the limit? Also what's the point when you can only do it once before it overheats? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTL4wDAbK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTL4wDAbK0
  - bradly 3y ago
    I'm not sure what any of that has to do with why people enjoy electric motorcycles. You seem focused on a motorcycle's racing ability as a measure of its usefulness or enjoyment.
eightnoneone 3y ago
Terrible idea?!? Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? Or an electric one? I've been riding for ~40 years and I don't think I've _ever_ met someone who rode an ICE bike for the fuel/emissions efficiency. It's for the fun and adventure. My stock Energica does 0-60 in 2.8s. WAAAY more fun than my 30yo 1100cc. Pretty GOOD idea from where I'm sitting.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
  > > My stock Energica does 0-60 in 2.8s. Should I be impressed? That's the same of a 1999 Yamaha R6 selling for less than 1000$ [0] And the R6 can do it all day, you'll run out of tires before you run out of clutch and gas. The Energica does it once and then it's panting and overheating. And as always the point in motorsport is that every noob squid and every idiot is capable of going fast in a straight line, the light supersport bikes such as the Ducati and the Yamahas will smoke the Electric motorcycles in corners because the latter are heavy due to the batteries [0] https://accelerationtimes.com/models/yamaha-yzf-r6-n-a https://accelerationtimes.com/models/yamaha-yzf-r6-n-a Sounds like you've been had.
  - tiew9Vii 3y ago
    The R6 is an inline 4, 15500rpm red line, 68nm of torque. Fun bike, on a track or doing illegal speeds on the road. Rest of the time, it has no power. The Enigica has 215nm of torque, about twice the 2022 R1. The R6, the power is all up top, it’s gutless down low, you have to be up near the top in the rev range for it to go, engine screaming away. You’d also need to be pretty skilled at launching to get that 2.8s acceleration from it. The Enigica you get all the torque from the get go, so much they have to limit it at the start. You just twist and it pulls from the off, no flat spots, it just keeps on pulling. It’s the torque that gives you the buzz, trying to hang on. They are very different power deliveries and the Enigica makes a far better road bike (power wise) with all the torque rather than a high reving 600 il4 that you need to be near red line to get the most out of it. Even a 1000cc il4 with more torque, they don’t really get going until above 6,000rpm then your license is gone as you click in to second gear when making the most of the power band. The Yamaha MT-09’s/10’a are so popular as they have high torque down low where it’s most practical for everyday riding.
blululu 3y ago
Eh, you’d be surprised how much particulates a 2 stroke engine with no catalytic converter spits out. But the more important point is that electric motorcycles are amazingly fun to ride. No clutch and crazy of acceleration gives an amazing ride.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
  > > electric motorcycles are amazingly fun to ride Every motorcycle is fun to ride, and the acceleration part, Yamaha clocked the 0-60 in 3s bit back in 1999[0] , we are really splitting hairs to somehow elevate the concept of electrification like it's some sort of re-inventing the wheel for the fun of the consumer and not for political goals, I have come to believe that it's a form of brainwashing That is unless the concept of 'electrification' is used to mask the inability to use a manual gearbox as it pertains to motorcycles. [0]https://accelerationtimes.com/models/yamaha-yzf-r6-n-a https://accelerationtimes.com/models/yamaha-yzf-r6-n-a
somerandomqaguy 3y ago
....? Motocross racing is probably going to see more electric because you really can't put that much power down into the dirt. And electric dirt bikes have much finer grain control of power delivery which makes them quite competitive against gas motorcycles. And smaller electric dirt bikes can get away with going places where the noise of a gas engine would just draw too much ire. I've seen some Surron's going onto bike paths; they're not supposed to but if you're careful and courteous, I doubt anyone's gonna call the cops on you. Surron was also doing demo's and training with their bike's indoors with the speed electronically limited to about 12kph (7mph). No tail pipe emissions, no noise, so no problems running them in a building. Folks that have never swung a leg over a motorcycle before could confidently mess around with one in about 20 minutes without having to think first about clutch or being scared of a whiskey throttle or stalling the bike. And you gotta keep in mind, it's not the expensive high performance two wheelers that are where they're really thriving, it's the cheap personal commuter. Pedal ebikes and low speed electric mopeds are growing pretty damn quick. Plus there is at least one intriguing idea in regards to security that gas bike's can't do. Having the electric motor apply reverse torque to the rear when someone tries to wheel the bike away without the key, effective turning the motor into a wheel lock for the rear when parked. I don't know how practical it really is but the ideal has some merit IMO.
tiew9Vii 3y ago
If you ignore emissions on the environmental pros/cons and if you believe them or not… As a riding experience, electric power delivery, the instant torque and performance will make the riding experience more fun. As a pure riding experience electric is probably far better than combustion engines, and I love my ice powered bikes, the noise, the different engine characteristics, singles, boxers, il4, v4, vtwins etc as much as anyone else. Practicality, range, weight is different and we’re probably a long time off comparable practicality of mid to large capacity size motorcycles.
bastawhiz 3y ago
> Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. I own two and emissions have never been a consideration for my purchase. Nobody is buying electric bikes to save the environment.
0wis 3y ago
Following your thought process, even better is everyone on bikes. That’s what is happening slowly in many developed cities. Everyone on a motorcycle (mostly scooters) is what you have in southeast Asia. And true, it allows much higher densities than US highways packed with cars, but the price is reduced confort and security… Hard to make people accept that nowadays. To give a contrarian view, I would happily become an electric bike customer. I think it is a great idea to apply electric motors to motorcycles : - Torque is usable at low speeds. To have the same experience in a ICE bike require a huge and comparably heavy motor, like the triumph speed triple or a Harley-Davidson. - Range is still a bit low but not far from the 250km/150miles an ICE bike can have. By the way, most bikers I know, myself included, have to stop before reaching such distances. Confort makes it hard to do more. - Speaking of confort, less noise and vibrations is a huge plus Price is still high bit it will reduce. We also can hope for range increases too [1]. My main concern currently is charging time, even with fast charging, 40min is still a bit too much for me, and I hope that progress will be made in this area (with 800v architecture maybe?) [1]: https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2023-energica-range/ https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2023-energica-...
- lloeki 3y ago
  Around here there's been semi-historically a bike culture in my city (certainly not at Amsterdam scale but one of the most bike friendly city in France). I see an increasing number of people with ev bikes, and in turn an increasing proportion of that are ev bikes that borderline being 70cc equivalent, maybe even 125cc, both in power, style, and usage (as in there are pedals but the drivers don't pedal). Except for the speed cap they're essentially more like small ev motorbikes (masquerading as ev bikes because regulations) than big ev bikes.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
  > > To have the same experience in a ICE bike require a huge and comparably heavy motor, like the triumph speed triple or a Harley-Davidson No it requires you to know the rpm range where the torque is on your motorbike and then be able to use the clutch and the throttle to reach it. Slow relase of clutch + ride-by-wire system introduced in the early 00s allows for smoother acceleration compared to the past

serf 3y ago

>The vast majority of people are too coward to drive them unfortunately you could frame regular motorcycles the same way. i'm not sure 'coward' is the right word either given the statistics. >Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. people aren't only into EVs for the environmental aspects; they're unique and offer a unique experience.

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
> > people aren't only into EVs for the environmental aspects; they're unique and offer a unique experience. Automotive is a 150yr old industry, you will not re-invent the wheel. Progress has plateued in the 1970-80s as far as fun goes. When Americans come to Europe and try the Vespas and the Lambrettas , that's about the same fun upgrade as going from an ICE which does 0-60 in 8s to an EVs which does it in 4s, only the Vespa experience costs 20$ and the Vespa itself 1000$. for some reason they come back home and completely forget about it and decide to fork 50,000$ for an EV instead
jameson71 3y ago
The statistics show that most people can’t handle a motor vehicle safely.

bradly 3y ago

> Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. There are other reasons to want an electric motorcycles besides low emissions.

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
Motorcycles are the best vehicles as far as acceleration and weight/power ratio is concerned, they fare even better in the price/quickness and price/fun ratio. A 45,000$ Kawasaki H2R has won a drag race against a RedBull F1 car, an F16, a Gulfstream G600 a Bugatti, a TeslaP100..[0] By orders of magnitude the Kawasaki was the cheapest vehicle in that race and smoked them all..but that bike can only be driven to the limit by the 1% of riders, the ones with the best skills and massive balls. What's the point of an EV motorbike? 0-60mph in 2.2s is not enough? Want 1.5s? Cool but what's the point of numbers for numbers sake if people aren't ever pushing it to the limit? Also what's the point when you can only do it once before it overheats? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTL4wDAbK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTL4wDAbK0
- bradly 3y ago
  I'm not sure what any of that has to do with why people enjoy electric motorcycles. You seem focused on a motorcycle's racing ability as a measure of its usefulness or enjoyment.

eightnoneone 3y ago

Terrible idea?!? Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? Or an electric one? I've been riding for ~40 years and I don't think I've _ever_ met someone who rode an ICE bike for the fuel/emissions efficiency. It's for the fun and adventure. My stock Energica does 0-60 in 2.8s. WAAAY more fun than my 30yo 1100cc. Pretty GOOD idea from where I'm sitting.

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
> > My stock Energica does 0-60 in 2.8s. Should I be impressed? That's the same of a 1999 Yamaha R6 selling for less than 1000$ [0] And the R6 can do it all day, you'll run out of tires before you run out of clutch and gas. The Energica does it once and then it's panting and overheating. And as always the point in motorsport is that every noob squid and every idiot is capable of going fast in a straight line, the light supersport bikes such as the Ducati and the Yamahas will smoke the Electric motorcycles in corners because the latter are heavy due to the batteries [0] https://accelerationtimes.com/models/yamaha-yzf-r6-n-a https://accelerationtimes.com/models/yamaha-yzf-r6-n-a Sounds like you've been had.
- tiew9Vii 3y ago
  The R6 is an inline 4, 15500rpm red line, 68nm of torque. Fun bike, on a track or doing illegal speeds on the road. Rest of the time, it has no power. The Enigica has 215nm of torque, about twice the 2022 R1. The R6, the power is all up top, it’s gutless down low, you have to be up near the top in the rev range for it to go, engine screaming away. You’d also need to be pretty skilled at launching to get that 2.8s acceleration from it. The Enigica you get all the torque from the get go, so much they have to limit it at the start. You just twist and it pulls from the off, no flat spots, it just keeps on pulling. It’s the torque that gives you the buzz, trying to hang on. They are very different power deliveries and the Enigica makes a far better road bike (power wise) with all the torque rather than a high reving 600 il4 that you need to be near red line to get the most out of it. Even a 1000cc il4 with more torque, they don’t really get going until above 6,000rpm then your license is gone as you click in to second gear when making the most of the power band. The Yamaha MT-09’s/10’a are so popular as they have high torque down low where it’s most practical for everyday riding.

blululu 3y ago

Eh, you’d be surprised how much particulates a 2 stroke engine with no catalytic converter spits out. But the more important point is that electric motorcycles are amazingly fun to ride. No clutch and crazy of acceleration gives an amazing ride.

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
> > electric motorcycles are amazingly fun to ride Every motorcycle is fun to ride, and the acceleration part, Yamaha clocked the 0-60 in 3s bit back in 1999[0] , we are really splitting hairs to somehow elevate the concept of electrification like it's some sort of re-inventing the wheel for the fun of the consumer and not for political goals, I have come to believe that it's a form of brainwashing That is unless the concept of 'electrification' is used to mask the inability to use a manual gearbox as it pertains to motorcycles. [0]https://accelerationtimes.com/models/yamaha-yzf-r6-n-a https://accelerationtimes.com/models/yamaha-yzf-r6-n-a

somerandomqaguy 3y ago

....? Motocross racing is probably going to see more electric because you really can't put that much power down into the dirt. And electric dirt bikes have much finer grain control of power delivery which makes them quite competitive against gas motorcycles. And smaller electric dirt bikes can get away with going places where the noise of a gas engine would just draw too much ire. I've seen some Surron's going onto bike paths; they're not supposed to but if you're careful and courteous, I doubt anyone's gonna call the cops on you. Surron was also doing demo's and training with their bike's indoors with the speed electronically limited to about 12kph (7mph). No tail pipe emissions, no noise, so no problems running them in a building. Folks that have never swung a leg over a motorcycle before could confidently mess around with one in about 20 minutes without having to think first about clutch or being scared of a whiskey throttle or stalling the bike. And you gotta keep in mind, it's not the expensive high performance two wheelers that are where they're really thriving, it's the cheap personal commuter. Pedal ebikes and low speed electric mopeds are growing pretty damn quick. Plus there is at least one intriguing idea in regards to security that gas bike's can't do. Having the electric motor apply reverse torque to the rear when someone tries to wheel the bike away without the key, effective turning the motor into a wheel lock for the rear when parked. I don't know how practical it really is but the ideal has some merit IMO.

tiew9Vii 3y ago

If you ignore emissions on the environmental pros/cons and if you believe them or not… As a riding experience, electric power delivery, the instant torque and performance will make the riding experience more fun. As a pure riding experience electric is probably far better than combustion engines, and I love my ice powered bikes, the noise, the different engine characteristics, singles, boxers, il4, v4, vtwins etc as much as anyone else. Practicality, range, weight is different and we’re probably a long time off comparable practicality of mid to large capacity size motorcycles.

bastawhiz 3y ago

> Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. I own two and emissions have never been a consideration for my purchase. Nobody is buying electric bikes to save the environment.

0wis 3y ago

Following your thought process, even better is everyone on bikes. That’s what is happening slowly in many developed cities. Everyone on a motorcycle (mostly scooters) is what you have in southeast Asia. And true, it allows much higher densities than US highways packed with cars, but the price is reduced confort and security… Hard to make people accept that nowadays. To give a contrarian view, I would happily become an electric bike customer. I think it is a great idea to apply electric motors to motorcycles : - Torque is usable at low speeds. To have the same experience in a ICE bike require a huge and comparably heavy motor, like the triumph speed triple or a Harley-Davidson. - Range is still a bit low but not far from the 250km/150miles an ICE bike can have. By the way, most bikers I know, myself included, have to stop before reaching such distances. Confort makes it hard to do more. - Speaking of confort, less noise and vibrations is a huge plus Price is still high bit it will reduce. We also can hope for range increases too [1]. My main concern currently is charging time, even with fast charging, 40min is still a bit too much for me, and I hope that progress will be made in this area (with 800v architecture maybe?) [1]: https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2023-energica-range/ https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2023-energica-...

lloeki 3y ago
Around here there's been semi-historically a bike culture in my city (certainly not at Amsterdam scale but one of the most bike friendly city in France). I see an increasing number of people with ev bikes, and in turn an increasing proportion of that are ev bikes that borderline being 70cc equivalent, maybe even 125cc, both in power, style, and usage (as in there are pedals but the drivers don't pedal). Except for the speed cap they're essentially more like small ev motorbikes (masquerading as ev bikes because regulations) than big ev bikes.
JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
> > To have the same experience in a ICE bike require a huge and comparably heavy motor, like the triumph speed triple or a Harley-Davidson No it requires you to know the rpm range where the torque is on your motorbike and then be able to use the clutch and the throttle to reach it. Slow relase of clutch + ride-by-wire system introduced in the early 00s allows for smoother acceleration compared to the past