4 ms·

> It's not W3C's (or WhatWG's) role to "oppose" random things browser vendors decide to do. Then why are they making standards in the first place? They're alr

> It's not W3C's (or WhatWG's) role to "oppose" random things browser vendors decide to do. Then why are they making standards in the first place? They're already deeply involved in the operation of browsers; they are practically morally obliged to object to things which could harm the Web.

shadowgovt 3y ago
For the same reason people write dictionaries.
- 9dev 3y ago
  Im not sure whether that example supports your point. The Oxford dictionary is essentially an authority on spelling, and their editors and councils definitely have weight in debates on the proper spelling of things.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - hangonhn 3y ago
    Wait. No. The OED is descriptive of English (UK only?) but is not prescriptive. They don't tell people what to spell or what they need to mean. They describe the spelling and meaning as it is being done. This is why there are new words that get added every year. It's not as if OED sit around and think of new words. I'm not arguing if the OP is right or not but I don't think the OED example is correct.
    - School-Cotton 3y ago
      The OED is definitely not UK only.
  - jonathankoren 3y ago
    It’s just a bad example. The Oxford Dictionary is just a publication of Oxford University Press. A popular one perhaps, but fundamentally no different than a Webster’s, or even say a Random House. Even giving it authority as a speller is suspect, since as an American, I can say with confidence that Oxford doesn’t know how to spell. A better example would be a language academy, however English has never had a language academy, unlike French or Spanish, resulting in it being a stubbornly descriptivist, rather than prescriptivist phenomenon.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      > Even giving it authority as a speller is suspect, since as an American, I can say with confidence that Oxford doesn’t know how to spell. The OED, in my experience, covers the varieties of English spelling quite well, and if you want no distractions as an American but can deal with less extravagantly complete coveraged, you can always use the OAD. Oxford seems to know how to spell quite well.
      - andrewjl 3y ago
        OAD is no longer in print and has been superseded by the New Oxford American Dictionary (NOAD).
    - seabass-labrax 3y ago
      > Even giving it authority as a speller is suspect, since as an American, I can say with confidence that Oxford doesn’t know how to spell. I had to give a chuckle at that, but seriously, the way in which words are spelt (ahem) in the OED is genuinely interesting! They use both -ize and -ise, for instance, choosing one or the other based on each individual word's etymology.
      - jonathankoren 3y ago
        I recently saw an author on social media remarking that their editor complained that they were mixing American and British spellings, and they should just pick one. The author was confused by the statement, because they didn’t there was anything unusual going on. Then the penny dropped. They’re Canadian.
  - School-Cotton 3y ago
    That’s not really true. The OED is a historical/scientific work. Its goal is to describe the English language, not to influence it. Things are not described as proper or improper in the OED, though they may of course be described as colloquially, nonstandard, regional, etc., which are not value judgments. A lot of words, especially the ones that have been around for a while, have absolutely tons of variant spellings listed, most of which a normal literate modern person has never heard of. Source: I have an OED subscription and look at it regularly.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
karaterobot 3y ago
> Then why are they making standards in the first place? For one thing, membership in W3C is loaded with representatives from those browser vendors. Which is a good thing, since W3C would be absolutely useless if browser vendors weren't there. For another, standards aren't the place for rants about who sucks shit and who doesn't. It would be a fun read, but a bad standard. A standard is for saying what you must do, not for saying who sucks shit.
- flangola7 3y ago
  Your statement about standards is not truthful.
  - karaterobot 3y ago
    Thanks for your comment

shadowgovt 3y ago

For the same reason people write dictionaries.

9dev 3y ago
Im not sure whether that example supports your point. The Oxford dictionary is essentially an authority on spelling, and their editors and councils definitely have weight in debates on the proper spelling of things.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- hangonhn 3y ago
  Wait. No. The OED is descriptive of English (UK only?) but is not prescriptive. They don't tell people what to spell or what they need to mean. They describe the spelling and meaning as it is being done. This is why there are new words that get added every year. It's not as if OED sit around and think of new words. I'm not arguing if the OP is right or not but I don't think the OED example is correct.
  - School-Cotton 3y ago
    The OED is definitely not UK only.
- jonathankoren 3y ago
  It’s just a bad example. The Oxford Dictionary is just a publication of Oxford University Press. A popular one perhaps, but fundamentally no different than a Webster’s, or even say a Random House. Even giving it authority as a speller is suspect, since as an American, I can say with confidence that Oxford doesn’t know how to spell. A better example would be a language academy, however English has never had a language academy, unlike French or Spanish, resulting in it being a stubbornly descriptivist, rather than prescriptivist phenomenon.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Even giving it authority as a speller is suspect, since as an American, I can say with confidence that Oxford doesn’t know how to spell. The OED, in my experience, covers the varieties of English spelling quite well, and if you want no distractions as an American but can deal with less extravagantly complete coveraged, you can always use the OAD. Oxford seems to know how to spell quite well.
    - andrewjl 3y ago
      OAD is no longer in print and has been superseded by the New Oxford American Dictionary (NOAD).
  - seabass-labrax 3y ago
    > Even giving it authority as a speller is suspect, since as an American, I can say with confidence that Oxford doesn’t know how to spell. I had to give a chuckle at that, but seriously, the way in which words are spelt (ahem) in the OED is genuinely interesting! They use both -ize and -ise, for instance, choosing one or the other based on each individual word's etymology.
    - jonathankoren 3y ago
      I recently saw an author on social media remarking that their editor complained that they were mixing American and British spellings, and they should just pick one. The author was confused by the statement, because they didn’t there was anything unusual going on. Then the penny dropped. They’re Canadian.
- School-Cotton 3y ago
  That’s not really true. The OED is a historical/scientific work. Its goal is to describe the English language, not to influence it. Things are not described as proper or improper in the OED, though they may of course be described as colloquially, nonstandard, regional, etc., which are not value judgments. A lot of words, especially the ones that have been around for a while, have absolutely tons of variant spellings listed, most of which a normal literate modern person has never heard of. Source: I have an OED subscription and look at it regularly.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

karaterobot 3y ago

> Then why are they making standards in the first place? For one thing, membership in W3C is loaded with representatives from those browser vendors. Which is a good thing, since W3C would be absolutely useless if browser vendors weren't there. For another, standards aren't the place for rants about who sucks shit and who doesn't. It would be a fun read, but a bad standard. A standard is for saying what you must do, not for saying who sucks shit.

flangola7 3y ago
Your statement about standards is not truthful.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  Thanks for your comment