4 ms·

This reminds me of a thought I have had for a while regarding restaurant menus. I have the suspicion that the green "V" or whatever symbols used to show that a

This reminds me of a thought I have had for a while regarding restaurant menus. I have the suspicion that the green "V" or whatever symbols used to show that a dish is vegetarian or vegan actually disincentives non-vegetarians from choosing the labelled dishes more or less subconsciously. So, if I were to run a restaurant, I would try a different strategy. I wouldn't label which products are vegetarian on the standard menu. Instead, I would also offer a vegetarian version that only included the vegetarian dishes for whomever might want it. The standard menu would of course also include the vegetarian dishes, just not singled out. My hypothesis is that, as a result, non-vegetarians would become more likely to order dishes that happen to be vegetarian but aren't explicitly labelled as such, rather than filtering them out of their options by default.

Ekaros 3y ago
Also sometimes I consider that branding things that are obviously vegan as vegan might not be needed. Let's say ketchup... Or teriyaki sauce... Or does not the people making those brand trust the vegans enough to know what is vegan and what is not?
- christophilus 3y ago
  Those things generally have sugar, and sugar isn’t always strictly vegan due to often being processed with animal byproducts.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  You're just a busy mom, and you're having a dinner party, and invitees have given you dietary restriction lists as long as your arm. You go to the grocery store, and you see three brands of ketchup. One is labeled "vegan ketchup!" and two are not -- which do you choose?
- sverona 3y ago
  Different vegans draw different lines. It's not unilateral, and the usual advice given is "do your best." Non-organic sugar is generally filtered with bone char, but then so is the groundwater.
- myshpa 3y ago
  > trust the vegans enough to know what is vegan and what is not E.g. flour might not be vegan (or non-icky). L-Cysteine is an amino acid and one of the most common reducing agents in baking. It is often extracted from various sources such as poultry feathers from ducks or chickens, cow horns, hog's hair, and even sheep wool. However, the L-Cysteine used in food can also be derived from human hair. Most of the hair used for L-Cysteine production originates from China, where it is collected from barbershops and hair salons. It can be created vegan in labs, but that would increase the price. l-Cysteine offers many benefits: - Gluten softening and dough relaxing - Dough conditioning - Reduced mixing and fermentation times - Better dough consistency and easier handling - Improved pan flow Many bakers don't include it intentionally, they purchase the flour and it's already included.
JohnFen 3y ago
> I have the suspicion that the green "V" or whatever symbols used to show that a dish is vegetarian or vegan actually disincentives non-vegetarians from choosing the labelled dishes It does that with me. While I'm not a vegetarian, I do eat very little meat. Not intentionally, it's just how I naturally prefer to eat. So I don't avoid any dishes just because they happen to not have meat in them. However, when items carry a special label like that on menus, I do tend to overlook them because in a lot (certainly not all) of restaurants, there's a real difference between those dishes and dishes that happen to not include meat. The ones being marketed as vegetarian/vegan are often simply not very good. > Instead, I would also offer a vegetarian version that only included the vegetarian dishes for whomever might want it. I agree, this seems like a better way to go.
- pxmpxm 3y ago
  I would posit the vast majority of non-specialty restaurants will have vegan dishes that are objectively inferior to the non-restricted menu items, which is why people tend do avoid them.
wmf 3y ago
Whenever I see something gluten-free I have to stop and think about whether it's been crappified or not.
vlod 3y ago
The problem is that the selection of vegetarian options is usually quite crap for regular restaurants. I'm obviously not talking about veg/vegan or Indian places. Generally irrespective of price, vegetarians only get 1 or 2 options. Most of the time even salads have meat on them. No, I'm not paying for salad+meat, hold the meat. I use these veg labels to quickly scan what I can eat. For me they are useful. It's worth looking next time you're out. I doubt you can make a veggie only menu as it would look quite pathetic. NOTE: I've lived in metro areas, Chicago, NYC, SF-Bay and Denver, so I'm not talking about the boonies.

Ekaros 3y ago

Also sometimes I consider that branding things that are obviously vegan as vegan might not be needed. Let's say ketchup... Or teriyaki sauce... Or does not the people making those brand trust the vegans enough to know what is vegan and what is not?

christophilus 3y ago
Those things generally have sugar, and sugar isn’t always strictly vegan due to often being processed with animal byproducts.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
You're just a busy mom, and you're having a dinner party, and invitees have given you dietary restriction lists as long as your arm. You go to the grocery store, and you see three brands of ketchup. One is labeled "vegan ketchup!" and two are not -- which do you choose?
sverona 3y ago
Different vegans draw different lines. It's not unilateral, and the usual advice given is "do your best." Non-organic sugar is generally filtered with bone char, but then so is the groundwater.
myshpa 3y ago
> trust the vegans enough to know what is vegan and what is not E.g. flour might not be vegan (or non-icky). L-Cysteine is an amino acid and one of the most common reducing agents in baking. It is often extracted from various sources such as poultry feathers from ducks or chickens, cow horns, hog's hair, and even sheep wool. However, the L-Cysteine used in food can also be derived from human hair. Most of the hair used for L-Cysteine production originates from China, where it is collected from barbershops and hair salons. It can be created vegan in labs, but that would increase the price. l-Cysteine offers many benefits: - Gluten softening and dough relaxing - Dough conditioning - Reduced mixing and fermentation times - Better dough consistency and easier handling - Improved pan flow Many bakers don't include it intentionally, they purchase the flour and it's already included.

JohnFen 3y ago

> I have the suspicion that the green "V" or whatever symbols used to show that a dish is vegetarian or vegan actually disincentives non-vegetarians from choosing the labelled dishes It does that with me. While I'm not a vegetarian, I do eat very little meat. Not intentionally, it's just how I naturally prefer to eat. So I don't avoid any dishes just because they happen to not have meat in them. However, when items carry a special label like that on menus, I do tend to overlook them because in a lot (certainly not all) of restaurants, there's a real difference between those dishes and dishes that happen to not include meat. The ones being marketed as vegetarian/vegan are often simply not very good. > Instead, I would also offer a vegetarian version that only included the vegetarian dishes for whomever might want it. I agree, this seems like a better way to go.

pxmpxm 3y ago
I would posit the vast majority of non-specialty restaurants will have vegan dishes that are objectively inferior to the non-restricted menu items, which is why people tend do avoid them.

wmf 3y ago

Whenever I see something gluten-free I have to stop and think about whether it's been crappified or not.

vlod 3y ago

The problem is that the selection of vegetarian options is usually quite crap for regular restaurants. I'm obviously not talking about veg/vegan or Indian places. Generally irrespective of price, vegetarians only get 1 or 2 options. Most of the time even salads have meat on them. No, I'm not paying for salad+meat, hold the meat. I use these veg labels to quickly scan what I can eat. For me they are useful. It's worth looking next time you're out. I doubt you can make a veggie only menu as it would look quite pathetic. NOTE: I've lived in metro areas, Chicago, NYC, SF-Bay and Denver, so I'm not talking about the boonies.