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> I obviously needed to find someone technical to build the website, whether a freelancer or a cofounder. Two jokers drop out of Goldman Sachs after a very sh

> I obviously needed to find someone technical to build the website, whether a freelancer or a cofounder. Two jokers drop out of Goldman Sachs after a very short employment stint and hire some kid to build them a Facebook-based link-sharing game that targets emerging artists who have no money on the most garish website I've seen in quite some time and all he gets credited with is Lead Engineer. Not even Mr. Lead Engineer. If non of the above doesn't embarrass you from turning down below-market deals with non-technical, inexperienced dreamers than nothing will. You need to recognize that your skill set is a finite commodity and the more time you spend on loser projects like these, the less in-demand you become. On the other hand, everyone knows that you'll do almost anything for cheap and you'll end up as the "coder dude" while the co-founders debate the merits of shitty internet-generated logotypes and branding as they plan their trips to SXSW. tl;dr: Facebook-based link-sharing games are loser projects you need to avoid.

badclient 15y ago
Until you learn one day that... Goldman guy meets up buddies working M&A, figures a way to flip his stupid-co to Big Corp for millions. This stuff happens every single day. Those crazy M&A deals you see of crappy startups? They are not typically done by nerd_programmer_dude. I am all for extreme precaution when picking cofounders, especially nontech ones, but it also helps to know what the best non-tech cofounders are able to achieve.
reason 15y ago
You have basically speculated the intentions of three people, the relationships they have with one another, and the outcome of their company all from this one line. Pretty impressive. It sounds like you've watched The Social Network one too many times. Constructive criticism would be of much more value. Further, it seems you are completely ignorant to the contributions that skilled businesspeople can make to a startup, and instead you've opted to succumbing to the played-out stereotype of all finance guys preying on the young, nubile, innocent programmer who just wants to build things and do good for the world.
- jsavimbi 15y ago
  > Facebook-based link-sharing games are loser projects you need to avoid. Can I be any more clearer and constructive to a young developer looking to break into the industry? Okay, maybe I should've added that if you need the money, feel free to do the work but don't go putting your name on it and make sure get paid up front. I'm not speculating on what intentions the two non-technical people on the team have as when I see one year's worth of work from lightbulb to launch manifested in that weekend project of a poorly conceived website, I already know they have no clue what the next step is and therefore it's a waste of time to even think about it. It's a couple of dudes trying to find unsigned talent through clicks measurements on Facebook. Didn't see that movie. Was it any good?
  - badclient 15y ago
    Facebook-based link-sharing games are loser projects you need to avoid. Mark Zuckerberg had a professor at Harvard who tried hard to convince Zuck to stop wasting time on this stupid facebook idea and get more serious about his degree. Your advice to the developer sounds similar to the advice given to Zuck by his professor.
    - tensor 15y ago
      That's probably good advice. A startup is a bit like gambling and recommending that a student finish their studies rather than bet it all at the casino is solid advice. Zuckerberg made a rash decision and got lucky. there were many similar sites at the time and anyone claiming to know which, if any, would become the big social site isn't being very honset.
      - badclient 15y ago
        Good advice? Unsure. Safe advice? Yes. I keep hearing the "got lucky" argument when describing Facebook and Zuck. All it shows is ignorance. If you study Facebook, you can seriously find very explicit product and culture decisions at each stage of its growth. These have little to do with luck. I'd argue Zuck experiences the same share of luck as an average person does. It's what he has made out of his luck. For example, a big evidence cited with the "luck" argument is how Zuck just happens to run into Sean Parker who introduces him to Peter Thiel. But the role of "luck" is over-stated: there are hundreds of people who run into Sean Parker. A handful of them even get introduced to Peter Thiel. But getting introduced or funded by Sean Parker/Thiel is not a ticket to a billion dollar company. There is much more to it having little to do with luck.
justinru 15y ago
Pretty much the most rash conclusion ever based off not much information. Why would a freelancer potentially getting paid to build something be wasting time with a project, even if the idea isn't solid? Not every coder out there is going to be hacking away creating the next Facebook or Twitter; some people like building skills, relationships, and getting paid while doing so.
quasisimple 15y ago
I must disagree - not with the analysis but with the concept "you should avoid working for crazy assholes who demand blood while paying you peanuts". Now, I'm not going to say that living this life will make you happy, but you shouldn't think of it as "being exploited" you should think of it as "getting some other guys to pay for your education". Technical skills in particular are in very high demand right now, higher even than six months ago, and they were astronomically high then. But it takes years to develop those skills, and taking uncomfortable, difficult work and living through it without visiting the psych ward (yeah, that's the hard part) is a notch on your belt. tl;dr Life is a learning process, you can even learn from loser projects.

badclient 15y ago

Until you learn one day that... Goldman guy meets up buddies working M&A, figures a way to flip his stupid-co to Big Corp for millions. This stuff happens every single day. Those crazy M&A deals you see of crappy startups? They are not typically done by nerd_programmer_dude. I am all for extreme precaution when picking cofounders, especially nontech ones, but it also helps to know what the best non-tech cofounders are able to achieve.

reason 15y ago

You have basically speculated the intentions of three people, the relationships they have with one another, and the outcome of their company all from this one line. Pretty impressive. It sounds like you've watched The Social Network one too many times. Constructive criticism would be of much more value. Further, it seems you are completely ignorant to the contributions that skilled businesspeople can make to a startup, and instead you've opted to succumbing to the played-out stereotype of all finance guys preying on the young, nubile, innocent programmer who just wants to build things and do good for the world.

jsavimbi 15y ago
> Facebook-based link-sharing games are loser projects you need to avoid. Can I be any more clearer and constructive to a young developer looking to break into the industry? Okay, maybe I should've added that if you need the money, feel free to do the work but don't go putting your name on it and make sure get paid up front. I'm not speculating on what intentions the two non-technical people on the team have as when I see one year's worth of work from lightbulb to launch manifested in that weekend project of a poorly conceived website, I already know they have no clue what the next step is and therefore it's a waste of time to even think about it. It's a couple of dudes trying to find unsigned talent through clicks measurements on Facebook. Didn't see that movie. Was it any good?
- badclient 15y ago
  Facebook-based link-sharing games are loser projects you need to avoid. Mark Zuckerberg had a professor at Harvard who tried hard to convince Zuck to stop wasting time on this stupid facebook idea and get more serious about his degree. Your advice to the developer sounds similar to the advice given to Zuck by his professor.
  - tensor 15y ago
    That's probably good advice. A startup is a bit like gambling and recommending that a student finish their studies rather than bet it all at the casino is solid advice. Zuckerberg made a rash decision and got lucky. there were many similar sites at the time and anyone claiming to know which, if any, would become the big social site isn't being very honset.
    - badclient 15y ago
      Good advice? Unsure. Safe advice? Yes. I keep hearing the "got lucky" argument when describing Facebook and Zuck. All it shows is ignorance. If you study Facebook, you can seriously find very explicit product and culture decisions at each stage of its growth. These have little to do with luck. I'd argue Zuck experiences the same share of luck as an average person does. It's what he has made out of his luck. For example, a big evidence cited with the "luck" argument is how Zuck just happens to run into Sean Parker who introduces him to Peter Thiel. But the role of "luck" is over-stated: there are hundreds of people who run into Sean Parker. A handful of them even get introduced to Peter Thiel. But getting introduced or funded by Sean Parker/Thiel is not a ticket to a billion dollar company. There is much more to it having little to do with luck.

justinru 15y ago

Pretty much the most rash conclusion ever based off not much information. Why would a freelancer potentially getting paid to build something be wasting time with a project, even if the idea isn't solid? Not every coder out there is going to be hacking away creating the next Facebook or Twitter; some people like building skills, relationships, and getting paid while doing so.

quasisimple 15y ago

I must disagree - not with the analysis but with the concept "you should avoid working for crazy assholes who demand blood while paying you peanuts". Now, I'm not going to say that living this life will make you happy, but you shouldn't think of it as "being exploited" you should think of it as "getting some other guys to pay for your education". Technical skills in particular are in very high demand right now, higher even than six months ago, and they were astronomically high then. But it takes years to develop those skills, and taking uncomfortable, difficult work and living through it without visiting the psych ward (yeah, that's the hard part) is a notch on your belt. tl;dr Life is a learning process, you can even learn from loser projects.