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> That must not get lost in all this. I fear it will. so long as we keep being all confused between individual things (actions of persons) and systemic truths

> That must not get lost in all this. I fear it will. so long as we keep being all confused between individual things (actions of persons) and systemic truths (actions of institutions). e.g. "Putin be Bad"... uhm, he's just the face of a large government.... he does not exist in isolation.

y0ssar1an 3y ago
Huh? Was Hitler just the face of a large government? Like Hitler, Putin is directing the large government *that he controls* to commit horrendous war crimes.
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Putin has spent over two decades building "the vertical of power" - he's at the top, and all the power goes through him. So, yes, he's the face. He's also the unquestioned decisionmaker. He does not exist in isolation - there are people who carry out his decisions - but they're his decisions.
- BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago
  yea, you (both replies to my comment) reinforce my point hahahha. you are of the stance "there's no collective madness, just evil rulers"... it's naive
  - simple-thoughts 3y ago
    It’s both. Collective madness supports the ruler while the ruler cultivated collective madness. You don’t even have to look into the extremes to see this- both democrats with Biden and republicans with Trump are seeing complete unreality, while both rulers have taken well documented evil actions (mass murder, human rights violations, etc). Rulers can be evil while their supporters are also evil and insane as well.
  - hackerlight 3y ago
    Because it was Putin as an individual who made the key moves to remove democracy and install himself as the autocrat. Putin was not just a cog in the system. He was the central force making these intentional decisions that caused this outcome. If Putin didn't want to make Russia an autocracy, and instead he as an individual preferred democracy, then that's what would have happened. 1990s Russia is quite dissimilar to other situations in history where there isn't one person causing the outcome. For example, regarding Japanese history of 1930s/1940s, it was not one kingmaker, it was a long chain of events and decisions involving many people. Your thinking would be correct if applied here. It's true, however, that Putin's moves wouldn't have been possible without the situation that he found himself in ... a weakened Yeltsin, dire economy, and nationalist sentiment after the apartment bombings. Putin capitalized on these things to get power. But once he was in power, it was mostly him.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  Putin is a mafioso who happens to own a government, an army, and a secret police force. He's like Sinaloa but wildly more ambitious, with fingers in all kinds of enterprises, criminal and otherwise. There is no chance he could have become president without the support of the Russian mafia, which is the biggest in the world. It would be hugely surprising if he didn't owe some very unpleasant people - like Semion Mogilevich - for it.

y0ssar1an 3y ago

Huh? Was Hitler just the face of a large government? Like Hitler, Putin is directing the large government *that he controls* to commit horrendous war crimes.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

Putin has spent over two decades building "the vertical of power" - he's at the top, and all the power goes through him. So, yes, he's the face. He's also the unquestioned decisionmaker. He does not exist in isolation - there are people who carry out his decisions - but they're his decisions.

BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago
yea, you (both replies to my comment) reinforce my point hahahha. you are of the stance "there's no collective madness, just evil rulers"... it's naive
- simple-thoughts 3y ago
  It’s both. Collective madness supports the ruler while the ruler cultivated collective madness. You don’t even have to look into the extremes to see this- both democrats with Biden and republicans with Trump are seeing complete unreality, while both rulers have taken well documented evil actions (mass murder, human rights violations, etc). Rulers can be evil while their supporters are also evil and insane as well.
- hackerlight 3y ago
  Because it was Putin as an individual who made the key moves to remove democracy and install himself as the autocrat. Putin was not just a cog in the system. He was the central force making these intentional decisions that caused this outcome. If Putin didn't want to make Russia an autocracy, and instead he as an individual preferred democracy, then that's what would have happened. 1990s Russia is quite dissimilar to other situations in history where there isn't one person causing the outcome. For example, regarding Japanese history of 1930s/1940s, it was not one kingmaker, it was a long chain of events and decisions involving many people. Your thinking would be correct if applied here. It's true, however, that Putin's moves wouldn't have been possible without the situation that he found himself in ... a weakened Yeltsin, dire economy, and nationalist sentiment after the apartment bombings. Putin capitalized on these things to get power. But once he was in power, it was mostly him.
TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
Putin is a mafioso who happens to own a government, an army, and a secret police force. He's like Sinaloa but wildly more ambitious, with fingers in all kinds of enterprises, criminal and otherwise. There is no chance he could have become president without the support of the Russian mafia, which is the biggest in the world. It would be hugely surprising if he didn't owe some very unpleasant people - like Semion Mogilevich - for it.