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> It's clear that SBF doesn't look at business/legal logic as an objective "thing" with special givens and nomenclature to which one must adhere. He sees it mor

> It's clear that SBF doesn't look at business/legal logic as an objective "thing" with special givens and nomenclature to which one must adhere. He sees it more as a unique series of situations with their own unfolding logic. He is taking the puzzler's approach. This is a remarkably generous framing. Is there some reason the SBFs of the world are "puzzlers" and the hundreds of thousands of other people in prison are just criminals?

deciplex 3y ago
> Is there some reason the SBFs of the world are "puzzlers" and the hundreds of thousands of other people in prison are just criminals? There were about 26 billion reasons for that, at one point. e: to be clear, I am pointing out a fact of how the world works here, not condoning it
- CPLX 3y ago
  Latin American cartel leaders have notched similar amounts of wealth, how do we evaluate them?
  - deciplex 3y ago
    Well, we evaluate them rather differently than the Sackler family, that's for certain.
    - CPLX 3y ago
      Ironic as they’re in the same line of work.
  - themodelplumber 3y ago
    You have to be careful going down this path because, for example, there are people in USG carefully constructing and maintaining bridges (so to speak) with those people every day, and this has been true for at least 50+ years. If you are looking for a stereotypical "bad person" example, IMO it's at least a good idea to have an accompanying "bad context" or "bad environment" condition, or your own assessment will tend to be full of ethical blind spots.
- greiskul 3y ago
  So was Ponzi an unrecognized genius instead of a fraudster? Money is not a high score in life, and money fraudulently stolen from others even less. This American logic of "guy stole so much money he is rich, lets treat him as better than others" is completely insane, and if you believe it, you deserve to get your money stolen by the SBFs of the world.
  - deciplex 3y ago
    I didn't lose any money to SBF, or any other crypto schemes, for what it's worth.
- danielmarkbruce 3y ago
  Practically every fraudster or white collar criminal has gotten away with a pretty large sum of money right up until they haven't. Every single one that caught is an idiot - they misunderstood the system they were trying to rip off, they misunderstood and/or didn't think through what checks and balances exist in the system to catch things after they happen. They are idiots.
- themodelplumber 3y ago
  > e: to be clear, I am pointing out a fact of how the world works here, not condoning it I mentioned the same thing, it doesn't seem to make any difference in situations involving extreme consumer-advocacy flex, I mean who are we to attempt to get two completely separate lines of thought to coexist ;-)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
themodelplumber 3y ago
Remarkable generosity? Eh...to me that would imply giving to him this or that. If literally describing how SBF's mind seems to work is "giving", then I have to say... ...damn you must judge people so hard. :D
- woodruffw 3y ago
  "Generosity" in the context of arguments refers to excessive obeisance, not literally giving someone this or that. > ...damn you must judge people so hard. :D I'm advocating for not judging hundreds of thousands of people more harshly than you appear to judge SBF. Again: what makes him different?
  - themodelplumber 3y ago
    > excessive obeisance Eh, it's not excessive or obeisant. It's simply a straightforward commentary on how the guy seems to think. Written in earnest, mind, for other community members, some of whom are awkwardly attempting to Judge-Judy their way through the situation. What does that really contribute, all the commentary on how evil this person is? Is it supposed to _not_ look like projecting? Eh...I don't think that's working too well. And the news headlines do a way better job anyway. > I'm advocating for not judging hundreds of thousands of people more harshly than you appear to judge SBF. Again: what makes him different? This doesn't make sense. Also, give me someone to compare him to if you are looking for comparative logic. Otherwise do the comparison yourself, it's clearly not that kind of comment. If you think he's not different because you think just like he does, then you may have an everybody-thinks-like-me problem.

deciplex 3y ago

> Is there some reason the SBFs of the world are "puzzlers" and the hundreds of thousands of other people in prison are just criminals? There were about 26 billion reasons for that, at one point. e: to be clear, I am pointing out a fact of how the world works here, not condoning it

CPLX 3y ago
Latin American cartel leaders have notched similar amounts of wealth, how do we evaluate them?
- deciplex 3y ago
  Well, we evaluate them rather differently than the Sackler family, that's for certain.
  - CPLX 3y ago
    Ironic as they’re in the same line of work.
- themodelplumber 3y ago
  You have to be careful going down this path because, for example, there are people in USG carefully constructing and maintaining bridges (so to speak) with those people every day, and this has been true for at least 50+ years. If you are looking for a stereotypical "bad person" example, IMO it's at least a good idea to have an accompanying "bad context" or "bad environment" condition, or your own assessment will tend to be full of ethical blind spots.
greiskul 3y ago
So was Ponzi an unrecognized genius instead of a fraudster? Money is not a high score in life, and money fraudulently stolen from others even less. This American logic of "guy stole so much money he is rich, lets treat him as better than others" is completely insane, and if you believe it, you deserve to get your money stolen by the SBFs of the world.
- deciplex 3y ago
  I didn't lose any money to SBF, or any other crypto schemes, for what it's worth.
danielmarkbruce 3y ago
Practically every fraudster or white collar criminal has gotten away with a pretty large sum of money right up until they haven't. Every single one that caught is an idiot - they misunderstood the system they were trying to rip off, they misunderstood and/or didn't think through what checks and balances exist in the system to catch things after they happen. They are idiots.
themodelplumber 3y ago
> e: to be clear, I am pointing out a fact of how the world works here, not condoning it I mentioned the same thing, it doesn't seem to make any difference in situations involving extreme consumer-advocacy flex, I mean who are we to attempt to get two completely separate lines of thought to coexist ;-)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

themodelplumber 3y ago

Remarkable generosity? Eh...to me that would imply giving to him this or that. If literally describing how SBF's mind seems to work is "giving", then I have to say... ...damn you must judge people so hard. :D

woodruffw 3y ago
"Generosity" in the context of arguments refers to excessive obeisance, not literally giving someone this or that. > ...damn you must judge people so hard. :D I'm advocating for not judging hundreds of thousands of people more harshly than you appear to judge SBF. Again: what makes him different?
- themodelplumber 3y ago
  > excessive obeisance Eh, it's not excessive or obeisant. It's simply a straightforward commentary on how the guy seems to think. Written in earnest, mind, for other community members, some of whom are awkwardly attempting to Judge-Judy their way through the situation. What does that really contribute, all the commentary on how evil this person is? Is it supposed to _not_ look like projecting? Eh...I don't think that's working too well. And the news headlines do a way better job anyway. > I'm advocating for not judging hundreds of thousands of people more harshly than you appear to judge SBF. Again: what makes him different? This doesn't make sense. Also, give me someone to compare him to if you are looking for comparative logic. Otherwise do the comparison yourself, it's clearly not that kind of comment. If you think he's not different because you think just like he does, then you may have an everybody-thinks-like-me problem.