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It also makes very clear the fact that pro-US propaganda exists, it’s not just Russia and other quasi fascist states that engage in propaganda against their peo

It also makes very clear the fact that pro-US propaganda exists, it’s not just Russia and other quasi fascist states that engage in propaganda against their people. What Snowden did was very damaging to the Obama admin’s “hope and change” brand. Of course they were gonna go after him with everything they had.

throwaway2990 3y ago
Every country has some form of propaganda. I’m not sure anyone has denied that US propaganda exists. But the US isn’t invading a country to wipe it off the planet nor is it committing genocide to an ethnic minority within its own borders.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  Maybe not currently, but the US has been guilty of both of those things in the past. The thing is that nobody invades a country desiring to wipe it off the planet. One could argue the legitimacy of such invasions happening today, and many of those same arguments would apply to the US invasion of Iraq, or the fact that we destabilized the Middle East to the point that it allowed ISIS to come to power. Was our invasion for oil any more moral than what Putin is doing today? And genocide? Need we discuss the native Americans?
  - throwaway2990 3y ago
    > but the US has been guilty of both of those things in the past. Is America doing this right now? I mean in the past. When 9/11 happened we didn’t really have internet and social media like we do today. But if it happened today I’m pretty sure there would be a lot of people against going to Iraq. Especially with what we have learned over the last 20 years. > The thing is that nobody invades a country desiring to wipe it off the planet. Putin said Ukraine is not a country. He wants it gone. It’s literally his desire… or do you believe it’s NATOs on the door step conspiracy theory? Lol > And genocide? Need we discuss the native Americans? Is America doing this today? Is anyone alive today that looks back on history and thinks “gee wiz that was a great period of time! We should do that again!!!”
    - squeaky-clean 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - macinjosh 3y ago
        [flagged]
        krapp 3y ago
        You had to resort to hyperbole and slander to make the Democrats look half as bad as the Republicans, though, and most of your list is stuff Trump was also involved in. Both sides are problematic but they aren't the same. "forcing experimental medications on the general public?" Grow up, FFS.
        throwaway2990 3y ago
        https://youtu.be/rImtkTImpXQ https://youtu.be/rImtkTImpXQ Stop defending genital mutation on children. I usually agree with the left more than the right but when it comes to this gender affirming care on children it’s sickening.
        squeaky-clean 3y ago
        I never said both sides weren't problematic. But it sounds like you agree with me. You're just offended I didn't insult the dems in the same sentence.
      - throwaway2990 3y ago
        You’re right. I completely forgot about the left allowing genital mutation but walking out of the committee when one of the politicians wants to play a video of a doctor claiming they don’t know what they don’t know when it comes to gender reassignment because there’s no studies.
        squeaky-clean 3y ago
        I mean it's completely unrelated to what was said earlier, but okay?
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    > nd genocide? Need we discuss the native Americans Native americans died mostly of disease brought by the immigrants from Europe. This decimated their populations more than guns.
    - yencabulator 3y ago
      You're conveniently omitting little things like the ethnic cleansing of Indian Removal Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act
      - ekianjo 3y ago
        By that time the native indian population was only a shadow of its former self.
- squeaky-clean 3y ago
  > I’m not sure anyone has denied that US propaganda exists. I don't think you've spoken to a very diverse number of Americans then.
- macinjosh 3y ago
  > But the US isn’t invading a country to wipe it off the planet Libya today is a violent country with slavery and all other kinds of horrors. Before the US wiped the previous gov't off the map it was prosperous country. Iraq, Vietnam, Syria, Yemen. We've been a part of 11 coups on the African continent. You really need to read more.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    There are also a lot of countries that WANT U.S. soldiers in their territory to deter Russia, North Korea and China from invading them. Also the Libyan situation is a lot more complicated than that.
    - hulitu 3y ago
      Are you sure ? Because nobody asked those countries (as people) if they want the US military. US just changed the government (colour revolutions) and then, suddenly, those country wanted "to be defended" by NATO without any public debate regarding this issue.
      - zirgs 3y ago
        We definitely want more NATO military on our soil. It's the only thing that prevents a Russian invasion. NATO is more popular than ever. Nobody is saying that NATO is braindead now.
- zlg_codes 3y ago
  > nor is it committing genocide to an ethnic minority within its own borders. America's treatment of Native Americans in general was extremely dehumanizing and brutal, but it was especially so under the command of Andrew Jackson, who enacted the Trail of Tears. (NB: And then we put his damn face on the twenty dollar bill... smh) Could you say the Natives of today are of the same health and status they were 300-400 years ago? We made that happen, as part of building up America. Most reservations now have high alcoholism, poverty, and some rely on fringe businesses like casinos or firework stands, etc. Those conditions aren't natural or endemic to their cultures. Our country is squarely responsible for the downfall of Native cultures. That's not even touching what we did with African slave trade. One could also argue that the concentration camps America had during the World War eras were only a few steps away from genocide. There was no legitimate reason to round people up the way they did. There are also other events where American interests have disrupted activities, like in Panama, Haiti, Cuba, etc. Meddling with other countries trying to influence their leadership isn't just a Russian thing. America has thrown its weight around in many places it had no business in. Maybe we could tweak our discourse into a more concrete direction? Pointing out some American propaganda might be a good start for us. My go-to for this stuff is the way bills are named in Congress. There's bullshit like the CARES Act, EARN It Act, No Child Left Behind, Patriot Act, I'm sure there's more obvious ones I'm missing, but it's deliberately named to pre-load bias on the legislation, and to use as petty political weapons ("Wow, you voted against CARES? Why don't you care?"). The Patriot Act might be the most relevant, in the modern age. It gave so much to the government and nothing to the people. Our rights were gravely injured when that was passed and I resent our government for manipulating language in such a way to push it through.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    You're digging up very old stuff. Other countries did far worse things back then. The USA isn't perfect, but it hasn't done anything nearly as bad as the Nazi Germany and the USSR.
    - hulitu 3y ago
      Except experiments on its own people ? Or Agent Orange. The fact that they write the history only hide their crimes.
- hulitu 3y ago
  > But the US isn’t invading a country to wipe it off the planet nor is it committing genocide to an ethnic minority within its own borders Cough... Corea, Vietnam, Irak, Afganistan, Libya, Syria, Native americans.

throwaway2990 3y ago

Every country has some form of propaganda. I’m not sure anyone has denied that US propaganda exists. But the US isn’t invading a country to wipe it off the planet nor is it committing genocide to an ethnic minority within its own borders.

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
Maybe not currently, but the US has been guilty of both of those things in the past. The thing is that nobody invades a country desiring to wipe it off the planet. One could argue the legitimacy of such invasions happening today, and many of those same arguments would apply to the US invasion of Iraq, or the fact that we destabilized the Middle East to the point that it allowed ISIS to come to power. Was our invasion for oil any more moral than what Putin is doing today? And genocide? Need we discuss the native Americans?
- throwaway2990 3y ago
  > but the US has been guilty of both of those things in the past. Is America doing this right now? I mean in the past. When 9/11 happened we didn’t really have internet and social media like we do today. But if it happened today I’m pretty sure there would be a lot of people against going to Iraq. Especially with what we have learned over the last 20 years. > The thing is that nobody invades a country desiring to wipe it off the planet. Putin said Ukraine is not a country. He wants it gone. It’s literally his desire… or do you believe it’s NATOs on the door step conspiracy theory? Lol > And genocide? Need we discuss the native Americans? Is America doing this today? Is anyone alive today that looks back on history and thinks “gee wiz that was a great period of time! We should do that again!!!”
  - squeaky-clean 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - macinjosh 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - krapp 3y ago
        You had to resort to hyperbole and slander to make the Democrats look half as bad as the Republicans, though, and most of your list is stuff Trump was also involved in. Both sides are problematic but they aren't the same. "forcing experimental medications on the general public?" Grow up, FFS.
        throwaway2990 3y ago
        https://youtu.be/rImtkTImpXQ https://youtu.be/rImtkTImpXQ Stop defending genital mutation on children. I usually agree with the left more than the right but when it comes to this gender affirming care on children it’s sickening.
      - squeaky-clean 3y ago
        I never said both sides weren't problematic. But it sounds like you agree with me. You're just offended I didn't insult the dems in the same sentence.
    - throwaway2990 3y ago
      You’re right. I completely forgot about the left allowing genital mutation but walking out of the committee when one of the politicians wants to play a video of a doctor claiming they don’t know what they don’t know when it comes to gender reassignment because there’s no studies.
      - squeaky-clean 3y ago
        I mean it's completely unrelated to what was said earlier, but okay?
- ekianjo 3y ago
  > nd genocide? Need we discuss the native Americans Native americans died mostly of disease brought by the immigrants from Europe. This decimated their populations more than guns.
  - yencabulator 3y ago
    You're conveniently omitting little things like the ethnic cleansing of Indian Removal Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act
    - ekianjo 3y ago
      By that time the native indian population was only a shadow of its former self.
squeaky-clean 3y ago
> I’m not sure anyone has denied that US propaganda exists. I don't think you've spoken to a very diverse number of Americans then.
macinjosh 3y ago
> But the US isn’t invading a country to wipe it off the planet Libya today is a violent country with slavery and all other kinds of horrors. Before the US wiped the previous gov't off the map it was prosperous country. Iraq, Vietnam, Syria, Yemen. We've been a part of 11 coups on the African continent. You really need to read more.
- zirgs 3y ago
  There are also a lot of countries that WANT U.S. soldiers in their territory to deter Russia, North Korea and China from invading them. Also the Libyan situation is a lot more complicated than that.
  - hulitu 3y ago
    Are you sure ? Because nobody asked those countries (as people) if they want the US military. US just changed the government (colour revolutions) and then, suddenly, those country wanted "to be defended" by NATO without any public debate regarding this issue.
    - zirgs 3y ago
      We definitely want more NATO military on our soil. It's the only thing that prevents a Russian invasion. NATO is more popular than ever. Nobody is saying that NATO is braindead now.
zlg_codes 3y ago
> nor is it committing genocide to an ethnic minority within its own borders. America's treatment of Native Americans in general was extremely dehumanizing and brutal, but it was especially so under the command of Andrew Jackson, who enacted the Trail of Tears. (NB: And then we put his damn face on the twenty dollar bill... smh) Could you say the Natives of today are of the same health and status they were 300-400 years ago? We made that happen, as part of building up America. Most reservations now have high alcoholism, poverty, and some rely on fringe businesses like casinos or firework stands, etc. Those conditions aren't natural or endemic to their cultures. Our country is squarely responsible for the downfall of Native cultures. That's not even touching what we did with African slave trade. One could also argue that the concentration camps America had during the World War eras were only a few steps away from genocide. There was no legitimate reason to round people up the way they did. There are also other events where American interests have disrupted activities, like in Panama, Haiti, Cuba, etc. Meddling with other countries trying to influence their leadership isn't just a Russian thing. America has thrown its weight around in many places it had no business in. Maybe we could tweak our discourse into a more concrete direction? Pointing out some American propaganda might be a good start for us. My go-to for this stuff is the way bills are named in Congress. There's bullshit like the CARES Act, EARN It Act, No Child Left Behind, Patriot Act, I'm sure there's more obvious ones I'm missing, but it's deliberately named to pre-load bias on the legislation, and to use as petty political weapons ("Wow, you voted against CARES? Why don't you care?"). The Patriot Act might be the most relevant, in the modern age. It gave so much to the government and nothing to the people. Our rights were gravely injured when that was passed and I resent our government for manipulating language in such a way to push it through.
- zirgs 3y ago
  You're digging up very old stuff. Other countries did far worse things back then. The USA isn't perfect, but it hasn't done anything nearly as bad as the Nazi Germany and the USSR.
  - hulitu 3y ago
    Except experiments on its own people ? Or Agent Orange. The fact that they write the history only hide their crimes.
hulitu 3y ago
> But the US isn’t invading a country to wipe it off the planet nor is it committing genocide to an ethnic minority within its own borders Cough... Corea, Vietnam, Irak, Afganistan, Libya, Syria, Native americans.