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It would be interesting to see some polling. I have friends in Israel who are super involved in protest, and that’s all I hear when I talk to them. But I have a

It would be interesting to see some polling. I have friends in Israel who are super involved in protest, and that’s all I hear when I talk to them. But I have also spent a lot of time hitchhiking or cycling in Israel, and that outrage just isn’t shared by most of the ordinary people I meet, whether they be non-religious, Orthodox, Haredim, or Druze, or whether they be a resident of Israel proper or a West Bank settler. I start to wonder if the outraged Israelis are a bit like the hipsters in my own country: loud on social media, nearly insignificant in the real world.

tguvot 3y ago
actually polling shows that like 67% of population against reforms. even within likud voters, like 60% are against (likud used to be liberal-right party)
chpatrick 3y ago
Ordinary people being complacent is more of a sign (and a root cause) of an autocratic country than not if you ask me. I live in Hungary and it's the same here.
- esafak 3y ago
  Strongmen can get voted in and tilt the scales to stay in power. In the face of that, it is rational for the minority in disagreement to acquiesce, so I am not sure the causality runs in the direction you suggest.
  - chpatrick 3y ago
    It's a process. People put up with one overreach or blatant corruption here or there and ten years later they're stuck with a permanent mafia state. It's what you get when you have apathetic people who don't pay attention or take any part in politics. The crooks take over, which itself breeds more apathy ("it sucks but what can I do"). The "ordinary people" vote for this every four years.
mgbmtl 3y ago
Isn't the outrage very visible in the streets of Israel (recurrent mass-protests)? I consider that different than outrage limited to social media. I'm not very familiar with the issue, but in any case, a majority rule that ignores strong oppositions from minority voters can be dangerous for democracies. It is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner (old saying, not mine).
mikrl 3y ago
Based on the videos I’ve seen of the protests, Israelis are on par with the French for the… spiritedness of civil disorder.

tguvot 3y ago

actually polling shows that like 67% of population against reforms. even within likud voters, like 60% are against (likud used to be liberal-right party)

chpatrick 3y ago

Ordinary people being complacent is more of a sign (and a root cause) of an autocratic country than not if you ask me. I live in Hungary and it's the same here.

esafak 3y ago
Strongmen can get voted in and tilt the scales to stay in power. In the face of that, it is rational for the minority in disagreement to acquiesce, so I am not sure the causality runs in the direction you suggest.
- chpatrick 3y ago
  It's a process. People put up with one overreach or blatant corruption here or there and ten years later they're stuck with a permanent mafia state. It's what you get when you have apathetic people who don't pay attention or take any part in politics. The crooks take over, which itself breeds more apathy ("it sucks but what can I do"). The "ordinary people" vote for this every four years.

mgbmtl 3y ago

Isn't the outrage very visible in the streets of Israel (recurrent mass-protests)? I consider that different than outrage limited to social media. I'm not very familiar with the issue, but in any case, a majority rule that ignores strong oppositions from minority voters can be dangerous for democracies. It is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner (old saying, not mine).

mikrl 3y ago

Based on the videos I’ve seen of the protests, Israelis are on par with the French for the… spiritedness of civil disorder.