4 ms·

They provide access to unlicensed copyrighted materials for a fee. I have no sympathy. If they didn't have a premium membership this would be much different.

Pannoniae 3y ago
I think that licences and copyrights are a useful litmus test in the move towards post-scarcity. If the copyright advocates win, you can expect even more artificial scarcity in the future with most people's living standards reduced to something worse than serfdom. If the copyright system can be weakened, then there is a chance that most people will see greater prosperity. Currently, there is no viable way to access all that information without databases like the Z-Library or scihub/libgen. All those library subscriptions are just a legalised form of extortion, which are usually inaccessible if you aren't affiliated with a university (or not with the right one)
- tokai 3y ago
  I'm sorry to tell you this but copyright advocates won back in 1886.
  - Pannoniae 3y ago
    Not really, it's fairly easy to find most things on the internet without acquiring them from an official source. It's an open question of what will happen next - if "trusted computing" and the appliance model wins, then you can say goodbye to that. However, that hasn't happened yet, and computers are still open computing platforms. I certainly hope for a future where that doesn't happen.
- nmeagent 3y ago
  I always think of this quote from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri when these issues come up: "As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." --Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"
neoromantique 3y ago
They do need to fund it somehow, don't they? It can also be (easily) argued that Z-Library is a definitive net-benefit to the humanity as a whole.
- A_D_E_P_T 3y ago
  Let's just come out and say it plainly: Z-Library is a definitive net-benefit to the humanity as a whole. Simple as that.
  - skyyler 3y ago
    I don't disagree with this sentiment. Taking money in exchange for priority access to the "stolen" materials makes things feel less like charity, though.
    - lamuswawir 3y ago
      It is pretty much free. 10 daily downloads is enough for books and the papers are unlimited. Do you even read 10 books per day anyway?
      - skyyler 3y ago
        “I pretty much didn’t break the law, your honour”
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  Library Genesis (and there are multiple LibGen servers now!) has operated for years without the same profit model as Z-Library. In fact, in the e-book piracy scene that goes back well over a decade already, Z-Library’s model is pretty unusual and has always been under a cloud of controversy.
  - dontupvoteme 3y ago
    This. LibGen is respectable, Z-Library is not.
sertraline 3y ago
This isn't true. They provide materials for free, but with a daily limit. That isn't to mention 10 books a day is a lot as you are not limited by download size. Even then, nothing stops you from waiting 24 hours. To say that they are not allowed to have a membership model that allows them to sustain themselves is nothing but jumping on high horse. People always say they would donate, but saying so is not the same as doing so. Most people never donate, and the donation model was never sustainable.
- some_random 3y ago
  >To say that they are not allowed to have a membership model that allows them to sustain themselves is nothing but jumping on high horse. It's copyrighted content, why would they be allowed to sustain themselves illegally reselling it?
  - sertraline 3y ago
    May be because they are not reselling anything. As far as I'm concerned, in a legal world you cannot get your textbook without paying first. Z-library gives you these books for free. If you reached your daily limit, you wait 24 hours. No one really forces you to get into membership and there are other, free ways to avoid the daily limit. By your logic they either must provide copyrighted content for free and pay hosting out of their pocket or provide nothing at all since they don't have the moral ground to ask for money. Servers cost money, a lot of money.
    - some_random 3y ago
      You seem to think that because they give 10 books a day, somehow charging for the 11th onward doesn't make it a commercial operation? And yes, I think that if you're going to be hosting material in violation of copyright distributing it for free (or asking for voluntary donations) is the only remotely ethical way to do it. Otherwise, you're illegally profiting off of other peoples work.
      - 3y ago
doctorpangloss 3y ago
> If they didn't have a premium membership this would be much different. You can buy invites to private trackers too. You can buy ratio - the ability to download more. It's complicated. The difference is you've never heard of the private trackers. (Edit: it turns out the poster is in private trackers.) One thing's for sure: Congress has completely abrogated its role in resolving these matters to everyone's liking. > I have no sympathy Like piracy exists, massive piracy, de jure, that's the status quo, it would be extremely reductionist and flawed to be like, "Well piracy is illegal." Like every person you like has probably pirated something, something expensive. I bet one of your favorite professors or TAs has probably copied a book for people: they're facilitating piracy. Something something log in your eye. I'm not saying you're wrong or right or whatever. I'm saying every meaningful IP related question nowadays requires years of courtroom litigation to Just Get a Fucking Answer. It's chaos.
- skyyler 3y ago
  I'm on some private trackers. When they get shut down, I won't be surprised. In my anarchist circles, other things are recommended before z-lib, which is a second-to-last resort. There's an ebook piracy scheme that's been going on longer than z-lib, but it's a little bit more complicated to use than just a website, so it kinda flies under the radar.
  - doctorpangloss 3y ago
    > I'm on some private trackers [which do basically the exact same thing that Z-Library does, with more steps] > anarchist circles Okay well, demanding ethical piracy from everyone except for the piracy that you use is pretty NIMBY of you. And anyway, I'm not sure why you're being downvoted! This humorless website...
    - skyyler 3y ago
      I'm not demanding ethical privacy, I just understand why they were shut down. It's a bummer for humanity, but the people running z-lib should have known what they were getting into by charging for a fast lane.
mcpackieh 3y ago
There is nothing wrong with a library that limits the number of books people can read per day unless they pay. Libraries in many western countries are customarily free to access, but they don't have to be this way.
f6v 3y ago
I have a friend who downloaded shit ton of books and never paid a dime. He thinks Z lib is one of the best things that happened to Internet.
- hackan 3y ago
  It indeed is, your friend is right.
  - 1letterunixname 3y ago
    I can't disagree. University publishers have consolidated in an anti-trust manner to virtual monopolies, and so charge zillions for books that should be $20 instead of $200. Universities have become massive cash-extraction businesses swimming in coin, spending 10-100M's USD each on buildings in short order, while trying to keep up the pretense of academic purity. And then there are the journals that are so expensive that high school and college students and people in developing countries who cannot afford to get past their paywalls. This reinforces both an economic and a scientific elitism.
- refurb 3y ago
  Would you friend feel the same if they were an author or an artist who created the work and depended revenues from their work to put food in their mouth?
  - ta123456789 3y ago
    At least for science books, authors get paid very little or nothing. And no researcher/teacher relies on that for their income.
    - refurb 3y ago
      That actually makes it worse, not better. You’re basically denying authors the peanuts they get.
      - 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Pannoniae 3y ago

I think that licences and copyrights are a useful litmus test in the move towards post-scarcity. If the copyright advocates win, you can expect even more artificial scarcity in the future with most people's living standards reduced to something worse than serfdom. If the copyright system can be weakened, then there is a chance that most people will see greater prosperity. Currently, there is no viable way to access all that information without databases like the Z-Library or scihub/libgen. All those library subscriptions are just a legalised form of extortion, which are usually inaccessible if you aren't affiliated with a university (or not with the right one)

tokai 3y ago
I'm sorry to tell you this but copyright advocates won back in 1886.
- Pannoniae 3y ago
  Not really, it's fairly easy to find most things on the internet without acquiring them from an official source. It's an open question of what will happen next - if "trusted computing" and the appliance model wins, then you can say goodbye to that. However, that hasn't happened yet, and computers are still open computing platforms. I certainly hope for a future where that doesn't happen.
nmeagent 3y ago
I always think of this quote from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri when these issues come up: "As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." --Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"

neoromantique 3y ago

They do need to fund it somehow, don't they? It can also be (easily) argued that Z-Library is a definitive net-benefit to the humanity as a whole.

A_D_E_P_T 3y ago
Let's just come out and say it plainly: Z-Library is a definitive net-benefit to the humanity as a whole. Simple as that.
- skyyler 3y ago
  I don't disagree with this sentiment. Taking money in exchange for priority access to the "stolen" materials makes things feel less like charity, though.
  - lamuswawir 3y ago
    It is pretty much free. 10 daily downloads is enough for books and the papers are unlimited. Do you even read 10 books per day anyway?
    - skyyler 3y ago
      “I pretty much didn’t break the law, your honour”
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
Library Genesis (and there are multiple LibGen servers now!) has operated for years without the same profit model as Z-Library. In fact, in the e-book piracy scene that goes back well over a decade already, Z-Library’s model is pretty unusual and has always been under a cloud of controversy.
- dontupvoteme 3y ago
  This. LibGen is respectable, Z-Library is not.

sertraline 3y ago

This isn't true. They provide materials for free, but with a daily limit. That isn't to mention 10 books a day is a lot as you are not limited by download size. Even then, nothing stops you from waiting 24 hours. To say that they are not allowed to have a membership model that allows them to sustain themselves is nothing but jumping on high horse. People always say they would donate, but saying so is not the same as doing so. Most people never donate, and the donation model was never sustainable.

some_random 3y ago
>To say that they are not allowed to have a membership model that allows them to sustain themselves is nothing but jumping on high horse. It's copyrighted content, why would they be allowed to sustain themselves illegally reselling it?
- sertraline 3y ago
  May be because they are not reselling anything. As far as I'm concerned, in a legal world you cannot get your textbook without paying first. Z-library gives you these books for free. If you reached your daily limit, you wait 24 hours. No one really forces you to get into membership and there are other, free ways to avoid the daily limit. By your logic they either must provide copyrighted content for free and pay hosting out of their pocket or provide nothing at all since they don't have the moral ground to ask for money. Servers cost money, a lot of money.
  - some_random 3y ago
    You seem to think that because they give 10 books a day, somehow charging for the 11th onward doesn't make it a commercial operation? And yes, I think that if you're going to be hosting material in violation of copyright distributing it for free (or asking for voluntary donations) is the only remotely ethical way to do it. Otherwise, you're illegally profiting off of other peoples work.
    - 3y ago

doctorpangloss 3y ago

> If they didn't have a premium membership this would be much different. You can buy invites to private trackers too. You can buy ratio - the ability to download more. It's complicated. The difference is you've never heard of the private trackers. (Edit: it turns out the poster is in private trackers.) One thing's for sure: Congress has completely abrogated its role in resolving these matters to everyone's liking. > I have no sympathy Like piracy exists, massive piracy, de jure, that's the status quo, it would be extremely reductionist and flawed to be like, "Well piracy is illegal." Like every person you like has probably pirated something, something expensive. I bet one of your favorite professors or TAs has probably copied a book for people: they're facilitating piracy. Something something log in your eye. I'm not saying you're wrong or right or whatever. I'm saying every meaningful IP related question nowadays requires years of courtroom litigation to Just Get a Fucking Answer. It's chaos.

skyyler 3y ago
I'm on some private trackers. When they get shut down, I won't be surprised. In my anarchist circles, other things are recommended before z-lib, which is a second-to-last resort. There's an ebook piracy scheme that's been going on longer than z-lib, but it's a little bit more complicated to use than just a website, so it kinda flies under the radar.
- doctorpangloss 3y ago
  > I'm on some private trackers [which do basically the exact same thing that Z-Library does, with more steps] > anarchist circles Okay well, demanding ethical piracy from everyone except for the piracy that you use is pretty NIMBY of you. And anyway, I'm not sure why you're being downvoted! This humorless website...
  - skyyler 3y ago
    I'm not demanding ethical privacy, I just understand why they were shut down. It's a bummer for humanity, but the people running z-lib should have known what they were getting into by charging for a fast lane.

mcpackieh 3y ago

There is nothing wrong with a library that limits the number of books people can read per day unless they pay. Libraries in many western countries are customarily free to access, but they don't have to be this way.

f6v 3y ago

I have a friend who downloaded shit ton of books and never paid a dime. He thinks Z lib is one of the best things that happened to Internet.

hackan 3y ago
It indeed is, your friend is right.
- 1letterunixname 3y ago
  I can't disagree. University publishers have consolidated in an anti-trust manner to virtual monopolies, and so charge zillions for books that should be $20 instead of $200. Universities have become massive cash-extraction businesses swimming in coin, spending 10-100M's USD each on buildings in short order, while trying to keep up the pretense of academic purity. And then there are the journals that are so expensive that high school and college students and people in developing countries who cannot afford to get past their paywalls. This reinforces both an economic and a scientific elitism.
refurb 3y ago
Would you friend feel the same if they were an author or an artist who created the work and depended revenues from their work to put food in their mouth?
- ta123456789 3y ago
  At least for science books, authors get paid very little or nothing. And no researcher/teacher relies on that for their income.
  - refurb 3y ago
    That actually makes it worse, not better. You’re basically denying authors the peanuts they get.
    - 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]