4 ms·

Seems Narrowlink is tunneling at socket level; while Tailscale is tunneling at network / IP level. I think they are comparing apple to orange here.

notatoad 3y ago
comparing apples to oranges is legitimately a good analogy here, just not in the idiomatic way people usually mean it. apples and oranges are pretty comprable. they are different things, but serve the same purpose and are often used interchangeably. it's perfectly reasonable to compare those two things.
- Joker_vD 3y ago
  Yeah, the usual way this analogy is meant to be understood always pissed me off. Of course you can compare them: apples are better for making an apple pie than oranges; apples are cheaper and less squishy during transportation; oranges have more vitamin C; apples have more bio-available iron; oranges (subjectively) are tastier and less sour; etc.
Joker_vD 3y ago
And we all know apples and oranges are incompatible in every single way. Even their physical dimensions or prices can't be meaningfully compared! Seriously though: both of those products aim to provide secure tunnelling/network connectivity. They do it differently, which leads to different trade-offs including, among other things, at which level the OS network stack is intercepted. All of those things can be meaningfully compared (e.g., "do I need my favourite application Z to explicitly support and be configured to use a HTTP/SOCKS-proxy or will it 'just work'™?" — Tor and OpenVPN give two different answers).
- hobofan 3y ago
  Both of those products provide that functionality on paper, but they are widely different products with widely different audiences. I think their respective "Get Started" buttons show it best: Tailscale tries to get you connected to your team and to download the client as fast and easy as possible (= it's a product for everyone in the company), while Narrowlink throws you to a lengthy explainer page that no non-technical user will bother with.
  - Joker_vD 3y ago
    Notice how you actually have compared those two products according to one particularly (arbitrarily?) chosen criterion.
    - hobofan 3y ago
      Of course you can compare apples to oranges, but if you know that a huge amount of the population is allergic to citrus fruit, it's just a waste of time to compare their dimensions or prices. It's not arbitrarily chosen, and I wouldn't call it a criterion. I am arguing that they are different products for so different audiences, that all other criteria don't really matter. > both of those products aim to provide secure tunnelling/network connectivity You are talking about technical capabilities, but that still doesn't make them similar products. Figma and Miro are not similar products, just because they both provide an infinite canvas and team collaboration capabilities.
      - Joker_vD 3y ago
        > if you know that a huge amount of the population is allergic to citrus fruit "But guys, what about lemo—", "John, you know we all except you are alergic to citrus, don't you?", "Oh, sorry, completely forgot, let's move on". ??? I don't understand what point you're even trying to argue. If some misguided manager would come to you and ask your opinion in him chosing between Miro and Figma, presumably you'll ask him a bit about his needs and then reply with something like "Well, while technically Miro would suit you better, what you actually need is Trello" instead of, I don't know, saying "they're not simialr products, no point in comparing them" then turning your back and leaving. Right? That's an entirely reasonable scenario IMO even if it involves meaningfully (i.e. "yep, one of those is definitely more suiting than another") comparing Trello to Figma.
        hobofan 3y ago
        Image someone drew up a comparison of Miro and Figma which listed a lot of facts that they could be compared on, but left out the parts where one is about designing and the other is about diagramming. Now, you would like to point out that the collection of facts omits some crucial points, which likely makes the comparison useless. What would you say in that instance? In the english language, the most common idiom that has emerged for that is "that's comparing apples to oranges". That's what the GP original comment pointed out (I assume). You replied to it, ignoring that point and not really engaging with it, and trying to dismantle the concept of "apples to oranges" as a whole.
- SajjadPourali 3y ago
  You can integrated it with sing-box to do. https://narrowlink.com/docs/extended-tutorial/vpn-integration https://narrowlink.com/docs/extended-tutorial/vpn-integratio...

notatoad 3y ago

comparing apples to oranges is legitimately a good analogy here, just not in the idiomatic way people usually mean it. apples and oranges are pretty comprable. they are different things, but serve the same purpose and are often used interchangeably. it's perfectly reasonable to compare those two things.

Joker_vD 3y ago
Yeah, the usual way this analogy is meant to be understood always pissed me off. Of course you can compare them: apples are better for making an apple pie than oranges; apples are cheaper and less squishy during transportation; oranges have more vitamin C; apples have more bio-available iron; oranges (subjectively) are tastier and less sour; etc.

Joker_vD 3y ago

And we all know apples and oranges are incompatible in every single way. Even their physical dimensions or prices can't be meaningfully compared! Seriously though: both of those products aim to provide secure tunnelling/network connectivity. They do it differently, which leads to different trade-offs including, among other things, at which level the OS network stack is intercepted. All of those things can be meaningfully compared (e.g., "do I need my favourite application Z to explicitly support and be configured to use a HTTP/SOCKS-proxy or will it 'just work'™?" — Tor and OpenVPN give two different answers).

hobofan 3y ago
Both of those products provide that functionality on paper, but they are widely different products with widely different audiences. I think their respective "Get Started" buttons show it best: Tailscale tries to get you connected to your team and to download the client as fast and easy as possible (= it's a product for everyone in the company), while Narrowlink throws you to a lengthy explainer page that no non-technical user will bother with.
- Joker_vD 3y ago
  Notice how you actually have compared those two products according to one particularly (arbitrarily?) chosen criterion.
  - hobofan 3y ago
    Of course you can compare apples to oranges, but if you know that a huge amount of the population is allergic to citrus fruit, it's just a waste of time to compare their dimensions or prices. It's not arbitrarily chosen, and I wouldn't call it a criterion. I am arguing that they are different products for so different audiences, that all other criteria don't really matter. > both of those products aim to provide secure tunnelling/network connectivity You are talking about technical capabilities, but that still doesn't make them similar products. Figma and Miro are not similar products, just because they both provide an infinite canvas and team collaboration capabilities.
    - Joker_vD 3y ago
      > if you know that a huge amount of the population is allergic to citrus fruit "But guys, what about lemo—", "John, you know we all except you are alergic to citrus, don't you?", "Oh, sorry, completely forgot, let's move on". ??? I don't understand what point you're even trying to argue. If some misguided manager would come to you and ask your opinion in him chosing between Miro and Figma, presumably you'll ask him a bit about his needs and then reply with something like "Well, while technically Miro would suit you better, what you actually need is Trello" instead of, I don't know, saying "they're not simialr products, no point in comparing them" then turning your back and leaving. Right? That's an entirely reasonable scenario IMO even if it involves meaningfully (i.e. "yep, one of those is definitely more suiting than another") comparing Trello to Figma.
      - hobofan 3y ago
        Image someone drew up a comparison of Miro and Figma which listed a lot of facts that they could be compared on, but left out the parts where one is about designing and the other is about diagramming. Now, you would like to point out that the collection of facts omits some crucial points, which likely makes the comparison useless. What would you say in that instance? In the english language, the most common idiom that has emerged for that is "that's comparing apples to oranges". That's what the GP original comment pointed out (I assume). You replied to it, ignoring that point and not really engaging with it, and trying to dismantle the concept of "apples to oranges" as a whole.
SajjadPourali 3y ago
You can integrated it with sing-box to do. https://narrowlink.com/docs/extended-tutorial/vpn-integration https://narrowlink.com/docs/extended-tutorial/vpn-integratio...