5 ms·

Does anyone think lack of sleep is the major contributor of this event, or the invalidation of all three speed sensors? I think we do test pilots for alcohol a

Does anyone think lack of sleep is the major contributor of this event, or the invalidation of all three speed sensors? I think we do test pilots for alcohol and drug before a flight, but can we also test them for reaction and a couple of hazard scenarios? Do you think it is too much? About the sensors, is there any inexpensive way to increase the heat or anything to prevent it from happening again?

Tronno 3y ago
Re your last question, the article states Air France was in the middle of upgrading the pitot tubes across its fleet when the accident happened.
- markus_zhang 3y ago
  Thanks, that's good to know.
t0mas88 3y ago
Every six months we go in the simulator and practice all kinds of failures and disasters. But lack of sleep is a real issue. Even more on the US side since rest rules are worse than European. Somehow it doesn't get the attention it deserves.
- mcbutterbunz 3y ago
  > But lack of sleep is a real issue. Even more on the US side since rest rules are worse than European. Somehow it doesn't get the attention it deserves. IMO this is almost a cultural issue. We don't prioritize sleep as much as we should and even hold lack of sleep as something to be idolized (i.e. sleep = laziness). How many times do we hear about those CEOs or Founders that wake up super early after only 5 hours of sleep. They're driven, they're hungry, they have something you don't. You're just lazy. Everyone "knows" we need more sleep just like we know we should floss every day but we have better things to do.
  - markus_zhang 3y ago
    A side topic, I'm aghasted to know that preschool and primary schools start at 7:40. God it's going to be tough for my son who refuses to sleep before 10pm.
    - mcbutterbunz 3y ago
      I think its well established that young children need at least 11-12 hours of sleep a night (depending on age). That would mean bedtime (or asleep by) 6:30pm the night before. These natural requirements don't fit well with societal norms. I've noticed huge changes in my mood and the mood of my children when we get enough sleep. In my experience their meltdowns/tantrums (and mine as an adult) are either related to lack of sleep or hunger. Sleep deprivation is a real problem that many may not realize until they get into the rhythm of healthy sleep.
    - flerchin 3y ago
      You can enforce a bedtime for any child. You have to consistently enforce it for at least 2 weeks, and you have to consistently wake them up earlier. Depending upon the child, it may be a battle for 2 weeks, but it's a battle you can win, if you want to.
_cenw 3y ago
The main takeaway is that somehow the pilot who kept holding the stick back was under the assumption that the correct response to a stall in cruise was to apply full TOGA thrust, not to recover from aerodynamic stall. This is likely because in thicker air, close to the ground, this actually works. It also does not help that a mid-cruise stall is extremely unlikely to happen in normal operation, since normal law[1] prevents keeping the angle of attack this high. They also hit an edge case so unforseen, you could consider it a design fault. Their speed was too low for the stall warning to sound, so every time they moved to recover the plane the stall warning returned, and every time they pulled it back into the stall it disappeared (with the airplane assuming the inputs must be wrong). I really recommend watching a breakdown of the instruments during the incident.[2] Things happen fast. [1]: https://docs.flybywiresim.com/pilots-corner/advanced-guides/protections/overview/ https://docs.flybywiresim.com/pilots-corner/advanced-guides/... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a06A78iXnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a06A78iXnQ
- markus_zhang 3y ago
  Thanks. Looks like a string of unfortunate events thrown altogether in a short period of time. I hope I'm never in that position...
afterburner 3y ago
Although it might be the way its written, but Dubois leaving the cockpit seems to come at the worst possible time too, right before they're about to hit a storm and the junior officer is nervous. Although he may have known he really needed the sleep, which is also a problem due to lack of sleep.

Tronno 3y ago

Re your last question, the article states Air France was in the middle of upgrading the pitot tubes across its fleet when the accident happened.

markus_zhang 3y ago
Thanks, that's good to know.

t0mas88 3y ago

Every six months we go in the simulator and practice all kinds of failures and disasters. But lack of sleep is a real issue. Even more on the US side since rest rules are worse than European. Somehow it doesn't get the attention it deserves.

mcbutterbunz 3y ago
> But lack of sleep is a real issue. Even more on the US side since rest rules are worse than European. Somehow it doesn't get the attention it deserves. IMO this is almost a cultural issue. We don't prioritize sleep as much as we should and even hold lack of sleep as something to be idolized (i.e. sleep = laziness). How many times do we hear about those CEOs or Founders that wake up super early after only 5 hours of sleep. They're driven, they're hungry, they have something you don't. You're just lazy. Everyone "knows" we need more sleep just like we know we should floss every day but we have better things to do.
- markus_zhang 3y ago
  A side topic, I'm aghasted to know that preschool and primary schools start at 7:40. God it's going to be tough for my son who refuses to sleep before 10pm.
  - mcbutterbunz 3y ago
    I think its well established that young children need at least 11-12 hours of sleep a night (depending on age). That would mean bedtime (or asleep by) 6:30pm the night before. These natural requirements don't fit well with societal norms. I've noticed huge changes in my mood and the mood of my children when we get enough sleep. In my experience their meltdowns/tantrums (and mine as an adult) are either related to lack of sleep or hunger. Sleep deprivation is a real problem that many may not realize until they get into the rhythm of healthy sleep.
  - flerchin 3y ago
    You can enforce a bedtime for any child. You have to consistently enforce it for at least 2 weeks, and you have to consistently wake them up earlier. Depending upon the child, it may be a battle for 2 weeks, but it's a battle you can win, if you want to.

_cenw 3y ago

The main takeaway is that somehow the pilot who kept holding the stick back was under the assumption that the correct response to a stall in cruise was to apply full TOGA thrust, not to recover from aerodynamic stall. This is likely because in thicker air, close to the ground, this actually works. It also does not help that a mid-cruise stall is extremely unlikely to happen in normal operation, since normal law[1] prevents keeping the angle of attack this high. They also hit an edge case so unforseen, you could consider it a design fault. Their speed was too low for the stall warning to sound, so every time they moved to recover the plane the stall warning returned, and every time they pulled it back into the stall it disappeared (with the airplane assuming the inputs must be wrong). I really recommend watching a breakdown of the instruments during the incident.[2] Things happen fast. [1]: https://docs.flybywiresim.com/pilots-corner/advanced-guides/protections/overview/ https://docs.flybywiresim.com/pilots-corner/advanced-guides/... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a06A78iXnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a06A78iXnQ

markus_zhang 3y ago
Thanks. Looks like a string of unfortunate events thrown altogether in a short period of time. I hope I'm never in that position...

afterburner 3y ago

Although it might be the way its written, but Dubois leaving the cockpit seems to come at the worst possible time too, right before they're about to hit a storm and the junior officer is nervous. Although he may have known he really needed the sleep, which is also a problem due to lack of sleep.