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> They got one billion dollars and they're reducing software development spending to focus on agenda pushing instead Where have they announced that they're foc

> They got one billion dollars and they're reducing software development spending to focus on agenda pushing instead Where have they announced that they're focusing on "agenda pushing"? Mozilla's "agenda" feels like a very tiny part of what they do, it's just that people talk about it endlessly.

timtom39 3y ago
https://blog.mozilla.org/en/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/ Just read their blog. Latest three: - EU's AI Act - Fakespot school supplies? - Making trustworthy chatbots to support women plagued by violence and abuse The first one might make sense? Second one WTF? And third is disgusting (I know people effected and the LAST thing they want is some chatbot). None of these are related strongly to Firefox. I quit donating to them years ago after it was obvious they have their priorities messed up.
- afavour 3y ago
  There really aren't any software engineering resources taken up with writing those blog entries. Would it help if they posted a weekly blog entry entitled "Yes, we're still working on Firefox"? I don't understand why everyone keeps talking about this as if it's an either/or.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - seneca 3y ago
    Because the things an organization talks about gives you an idea of their priorities and their values. If a technical org you otherwise supported suddenly started posting blog entries about how Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, and maybe they could write a chatbot to help correct misconceptions about Nazis, you would probably change your opinion about them, regardless of how much effort it took to write the post.
    - afavour 3y ago
      Equating any of the three examples the OP gave with "Hitler wasn't such a bad guy" is... an interesting take. But nevertheless, you're only looking at one thing. Why not look at the Firefox release notes? https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/116.0/releasenotes/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/116.0/releasenotes/ Three releases so far this month! Look at that technical organization iterating on its core product!
      - whatshisface 3y ago
        Someday HN may learn the difference between equation and comparison...
        deprecative 3y ago
        Humans in general haven't so we'll hope for a better tomorrow, together, tomorrow.
        tuukkah 3y ago
        It seems more likely that a part of HN needs to learn the difference between mathematics and human language.
    - UtopiaPunk 3y ago
      Well today, the Mozilla blog is talking about extensions in the Firefox Android browser, so that seems cool?
- dralley 3y ago
  The third one isn't something they're doing, it's the winner they selected in a "responsible AI challenge" competition.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    > the winner they selected in a "responsible AI challenge" competition How is hosting "responsible AI" competitions not something they're doing? Sounds like a huge waste and a distraction from what should be their core mission of protecting the web by making the best browser they possibly can. If they want to dip their toes into the AI space to stay trendy and relevant, they could at least do it in a way that constructively relates to creating a web browser. Their local translation extension is a good example of this, they did a great job with it. They could do more, like maybe experiment with AI-guided adblocking or something. But a competition to create responsible chatbots? How is that relevant to Firefox? Besides the winner of the competition being stupid, the whole competition was stupid. What did they even hope to accomplish with such a competition, to sway the development of commercial chatbots from the likes of OpenAI or Facebook? They gave out $100k to the top 3 winners and not one of them has anything to do with making a better browser. If I'm wrong, then please explain how any of this relates to making Firefox better. Don't copy-paste their vapid corporate rambling explanation to me, if you can't explain it in plain normal english then it's bullshit.
    - afavour 3y ago
      > what should be their core mission of protecting the web by making the best browser they possibly can In your opinion. I disagree. They could spend a billion dollars on making the best browser the world has ever seen and it would still be used by next to no-one. People use the browser they're given, especially in the smartphone era we're in now. Android users use Chrome. iOS users use Safari, Mozilla isn't even allowed to make a real version of Firefox for iOS. So they've clearly decided to expand their mission to protect the web. Ensuring AI is used ethically strikes me as relevant to the topic, a little too much like chasing buzzwords to my taste but it's clearly an area of current interest. And hey, maybe a few more people will learn about the Mozilla brand and consider converting to Firefox some day.
Rebelgecko 3y ago
I dunno if it's their "focus" but it's a big part of their PR. eg their lobbying to get Amazon and NextDoor to cooperate less with law enforcement. The Mozilla incubator has a goal of spending 40% of its money on social justice initiatives. Meanwhile they're cutting staff and resources for browser development, which IMO should be their bread and butter.
- afavour 3y ago
  > eg their lobbying to get Amazon and NextDoor to cooperate less with law enforcement Maybe that's a great example of the different ways you can look at the exact same thing. To me that's a privacy cause, and it's one I agree with. What percentage of Ring customers are aware they're providing the police with a direct feed of their front yard? "Ring Reveals They Give Videos to Police Without User Consent or a Warrant" https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/07/ring-reveals-they-give-videos-police-without-user-consent-or-warrant https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/07/ring-reveals-they-give...
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    The claim above, disputed by you: "They got one billion dollars and they're reducing software development spending to focus on agenda pushing instead" "Privacy cause" is an agenda they're pushing. An agenda I happen to agree with, but promoting that privacy agenda is not software development spending no matter how you look at it. You can't reasonably claim these are equivalent just because you like them both. Telling people that Ring is bad isn't software development, a "different way of looking at it" doesn't cut it.
    - afavour 3y ago
      Perhaps there was a time when Mozilla's sole monetary focus was development of the Firefox browser but if there was it was a long time ago. There aren't only two pots of money in the Mozilla budget, one labeled "software development" and another "agendas", they do all kinds of things. An increase in "agendas" does not automatically mean a decrease in software development. Case in point: Mozilla used to have a "Mozilla Science Lab" from 2013-18[1]. When it was shut down there was presumably extra cash made available. Maybe it went to "agendas", maybe it didn't. And hey, maybe it couldn't: the foundation receives donations for specific projects, they're not able to just say "thanks for the money, we're actually going to spend it on something totally different". If they shut down a program they might well lose the funding associated with it and the whole thing would be a zero-sum exercise. To interpret this as a binary choice between two activities is an oversimplification. [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/ScienceLab https://wiki.mozilla.org/ScienceLab
Vinnl 3y ago
Mozilla is a non-profit, and Firefox is explicitly a means (one of them) to an end, i.e. a healthy internet as described in the Mozilla Manifesto: https://www.mozilla.org/about/manifesto/ https://www.mozilla.org/about/manifesto/ There's definitely an agenda. It's one that's good for users IMHO though, as opposed to the agendas of the for-profit browser makers.

timtom39 3y ago

https://blog.mozilla.org/en/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/ Just read their blog. Latest three: - EU's AI Act - Fakespot school supplies? - Making trustworthy chatbots to support women plagued by violence and abuse The first one might make sense? Second one WTF? And third is disgusting (I know people effected and the LAST thing they want is some chatbot). None of these are related strongly to Firefox. I quit donating to them years ago after it was obvious they have their priorities messed up.

afavour 3y ago
There really aren't any software engineering resources taken up with writing those blog entries. Would it help if they posted a weekly blog entry entitled "Yes, we're still working on Firefox"? I don't understand why everyone keeps talking about this as if it's an either/or.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- seneca 3y ago
  Because the things an organization talks about gives you an idea of their priorities and their values. If a technical org you otherwise supported suddenly started posting blog entries about how Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, and maybe they could write a chatbot to help correct misconceptions about Nazis, you would probably change your opinion about them, regardless of how much effort it took to write the post.
  - afavour 3y ago
    Equating any of the three examples the OP gave with "Hitler wasn't such a bad guy" is... an interesting take. But nevertheless, you're only looking at one thing. Why not look at the Firefox release notes? https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/116.0/releasenotes/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/116.0/releasenotes/ Three releases so far this month! Look at that technical organization iterating on its core product!
    - whatshisface 3y ago
      Someday HN may learn the difference between equation and comparison...
      - deprecative 3y ago
        Humans in general haven't so we'll hope for a better tomorrow, together, tomorrow.
      - tuukkah 3y ago
        It seems more likely that a part of HN needs to learn the difference between mathematics and human language.
  - UtopiaPunk 3y ago
    Well today, the Mozilla blog is talking about extensions in the Firefox Android browser, so that seems cool?
dralley 3y ago
The third one isn't something they're doing, it's the winner they selected in a "responsible AI challenge" competition.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  > the winner they selected in a "responsible AI challenge" competition How is hosting "responsible AI" competitions not something they're doing? Sounds like a huge waste and a distraction from what should be their core mission of protecting the web by making the best browser they possibly can. If they want to dip their toes into the AI space to stay trendy and relevant, they could at least do it in a way that constructively relates to creating a web browser. Their local translation extension is a good example of this, they did a great job with it. They could do more, like maybe experiment with AI-guided adblocking or something. But a competition to create responsible chatbots? How is that relevant to Firefox? Besides the winner of the competition being stupid, the whole competition was stupid. What did they even hope to accomplish with such a competition, to sway the development of commercial chatbots from the likes of OpenAI or Facebook? They gave out $100k to the top 3 winners and not one of them has anything to do with making a better browser. If I'm wrong, then please explain how any of this relates to making Firefox better. Don't copy-paste their vapid corporate rambling explanation to me, if you can't explain it in plain normal english then it's bullshit.
  - afavour 3y ago
    > what should be their core mission of protecting the web by making the best browser they possibly can In your opinion. I disagree. They could spend a billion dollars on making the best browser the world has ever seen and it would still be used by next to no-one. People use the browser they're given, especially in the smartphone era we're in now. Android users use Chrome. iOS users use Safari, Mozilla isn't even allowed to make a real version of Firefox for iOS. So they've clearly decided to expand their mission to protect the web. Ensuring AI is used ethically strikes me as relevant to the topic, a little too much like chasing buzzwords to my taste but it's clearly an area of current interest. And hey, maybe a few more people will learn about the Mozilla brand and consider converting to Firefox some day.

Rebelgecko 3y ago

I dunno if it's their "focus" but it's a big part of their PR. eg their lobbying to get Amazon and NextDoor to cooperate less with law enforcement. The Mozilla incubator has a goal of spending 40% of its money on social justice initiatives. Meanwhile they're cutting staff and resources for browser development, which IMO should be their bread and butter.

afavour 3y ago
> eg their lobbying to get Amazon and NextDoor to cooperate less with law enforcement Maybe that's a great example of the different ways you can look at the exact same thing. To me that's a privacy cause, and it's one I agree with. What percentage of Ring customers are aware they're providing the police with a direct feed of their front yard? "Ring Reveals They Give Videos to Police Without User Consent or a Warrant" https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/07/ring-reveals-they-give-videos-police-without-user-consent-or-warrant https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/07/ring-reveals-they-give...
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  The claim above, disputed by you: "They got one billion dollars and they're reducing software development spending to focus on agenda pushing instead" "Privacy cause" is an agenda they're pushing. An agenda I happen to agree with, but promoting that privacy agenda is not software development spending no matter how you look at it. You can't reasonably claim these are equivalent just because you like them both. Telling people that Ring is bad isn't software development, a "different way of looking at it" doesn't cut it.
  - afavour 3y ago
    Perhaps there was a time when Mozilla's sole monetary focus was development of the Firefox browser but if there was it was a long time ago. There aren't only two pots of money in the Mozilla budget, one labeled "software development" and another "agendas", they do all kinds of things. An increase in "agendas" does not automatically mean a decrease in software development. Case in point: Mozilla used to have a "Mozilla Science Lab" from 2013-18[1]. When it was shut down there was presumably extra cash made available. Maybe it went to "agendas", maybe it didn't. And hey, maybe it couldn't: the foundation receives donations for specific projects, they're not able to just say "thanks for the money, we're actually going to spend it on something totally different". If they shut down a program they might well lose the funding associated with it and the whole thing would be a zero-sum exercise. To interpret this as a binary choice between two activities is an oversimplification. [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/ScienceLab https://wiki.mozilla.org/ScienceLab

Vinnl 3y ago

Mozilla is a non-profit, and Firefox is explicitly a means (one of them) to an end, i.e. a healthy internet as described in the Mozilla Manifesto: https://www.mozilla.org/about/manifesto/ https://www.mozilla.org/about/manifesto/ There's definitely an agenda. It's one that's good for users IMHO though, as opposed to the agendas of the for-profit browser makers.