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California Tested Different Minimum Speed Limits for Lanes. It Didn’t Work

15 points by onychomys 3y ago

geoduck14 3y ago
New England should have a minimum speed limit. I'm driving down country roads with 35 mph - this should be criminal!
toss1 3y ago
I commend them for doing the test; this is an excellent idea. Sadly, the test is no good in an environment where most drivers are very undisciplined and also confused about the tests (e.g., mistaking "minimum" for "maximum"), and there is insufficient time for retraining and habituation. I'm sure it could work, but it probably requires a far more educated and disciplined approach to driving.
- porkbeer 3y ago
  Nah, I think a real world test is the only practical one.
  - toss1 3y ago
    I agree, a real world test is key. But as structured, the test was doomed to fail. It would need more groundwork & education, probably A/B testing of signs to eliminate min/max confusion (e.g., would a sign saying "Speed only 65-75mph" be better than the "Speed 10mph minimum"), TV public relations campaign and even advertising about the test, etc. Maybe some of this happened, but it wasn't evident from the article
longbrass 3y ago
A recent drive though FL revealed the following. Within indexical semiosis: The left lane = the fast lane Ergo driver can identify as driving fast without regard to the actual speed limit or whether or not they are passing other vehicles. Ask people within FL what the left lane of the highway is called and you will seldom hear “the passing lane.”
- stouset 3y ago
  This is my take too. The left lane to many is “the fast lane” and because virtually every driver perceives themselves to be above average, this is the lane they decide is right for them to be in.
seabird 3y ago
This is a solved problem. The left lane is the passing lane, the right lane is the cruising lane. If you're not passing, you should be in the right lane. Highway traffic organizes itself if you do this. US highways (and driving in general) will always be fucked as long as the only requirement for a driver's license is a pulse, and you never get ticketed for ignoring the rules of the road. Your average American driver is lazy, stupid, combative, uneducated, clumsy, or some combination of them, and they will never be inconvenienced by the behavior enough to change it. The only way to fix this is to enforce the rules that already exist, which will never be done.
- fakedang 3y ago
  > Your average human driver is lazy, stupid, combative, uneducated, clumsy, or some combination of them, and they will never be inconvenienced by the behavior enough to change it. FTFY
  - flangola7 3y ago
    No, Americans are specifically worse. Simply look at what is needed to earn a license - almost nothing, and it also costs next to nothing. American driving laws are also extremely lax, there are American drivers who have had multiple DUIs in life and still have a license.
    - toast0 3y ago
      It's also even easier to drive without a license. Chances are you can go a long time without needing to show your license, better to have them easy to get so people have them when, than a high barrier and many unlicensed drivers.
      - martin8412 3y ago
        Sounds like a good reason to have more stop and checks.
        3y ago
powersnail 3y ago
> The most unanticipated result of this study was the fact that the minimum speed signing generally moved more drivers into the left lanes instead of moving slow drivers to the right lane. Fascinating. I wonder why. Perhaps people are generally so confident that they are driving at the right speed, not cluttering the traffic (even when others do think so), they don't consider it a necessity to move over the slower lanes (even when they should). A sign of minimum speed, instead of being a reminder, on the one hand confuses some into thinking it's the maximum speed, and on the other hand, challenges that confidence---surely I'm not so incapable a driver that I can't maintain 60+ mph!
- creer 3y ago
  This might be the relevant quote: > The police found the minimum speeds to be essentially unenforceable, observing that drivers were passing more on the right, a quarter of all motorists didn't even notice the signs, and 13% of citations issued for minimum speed violations indicated that drivers confused “minimum” for “maximum.” Striking, IMO, that their conclusion was "unenforceable". That might be the main take here: California highway patrol obsesses on some rules and just plain doesn't bother with others. So in practice there is no risk to grabbing a lane - any lane - and acting as if you own it.
kotaKat 3y ago
Meanwhile, modern-day California imposes a 55 mph speed limit on trucks, which helps contribute to traffic jams and delays...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
marssaxman 3y ago
Of course it didn't work; driving speed is primarily a function of road design, not law.
strathmeyer 3y ago
Don't forget 495 around DC, where the left lane is the slow lane for some reason.

15 points by onychomys 3y ago

New England should have a minimum speed limit. I'm driving down country roads with 35 mph - this should be criminal!

I commend them for doing the test; this is an excellent idea. Sadly, the test is no good in an environment where most drivers are very undisciplined and also confused about the tests (e.g., mistaking "minimum" for "maximum"), and there is insufficient time for retraining and habituation. I'm sure it could work, but it probably requires a far more educated and disciplined approach to driving.

porkbeer 3y ago
Nah, I think a real world test is the only practical one.
- toss1 3y ago
  I agree, a real world test is key. But as structured, the test was doomed to fail. It would need more groundwork & education, probably A/B testing of signs to eliminate min/max confusion (e.g., would a sign saying "Speed only 65-75mph" be better than the "Speed 10mph minimum"), TV public relations campaign and even advertising about the test, etc. Maybe some of this happened, but it wasn't evident from the article

longbrass 3y ago

A recent drive though FL revealed the following. Within indexical semiosis: The left lane = the fast lane Ergo driver can identify as driving fast without regard to the actual speed limit or whether or not they are passing other vehicles. Ask people within FL what the left lane of the highway is called and you will seldom hear “the passing lane.”

stouset 3y ago
This is my take too. The left lane to many is “the fast lane” and because virtually every driver perceives themselves to be above average, this is the lane they decide is right for them to be in.

seabird 3y ago

This is a solved problem. The left lane is the passing lane, the right lane is the cruising lane. If you're not passing, you should be in the right lane. Highway traffic organizes itself if you do this. US highways (and driving in general) will always be fucked as long as the only requirement for a driver's license is a pulse, and you never get ticketed for ignoring the rules of the road. Your average American driver is lazy, stupid, combative, uneducated, clumsy, or some combination of them, and they will never be inconvenienced by the behavior enough to change it. The only way to fix this is to enforce the rules that already exist, which will never be done.

fakedang 3y ago
> Your average human driver is lazy, stupid, combative, uneducated, clumsy, or some combination of them, and they will never be inconvenienced by the behavior enough to change it. FTFY
- flangola7 3y ago
  No, Americans are specifically worse. Simply look at what is needed to earn a license - almost nothing, and it also costs next to nothing. American driving laws are also extremely lax, there are American drivers who have had multiple DUIs in life and still have a license.
  - toast0 3y ago
    It's also even easier to drive without a license. Chances are you can go a long time without needing to show your license, better to have them easy to get so people have them when, than a high barrier and many unlicensed drivers.
    - martin8412 3y ago
      Sounds like a good reason to have more stop and checks.
      - 3y ago

powersnail 3y ago

> The most unanticipated result of this study was the fact that the minimum speed signing generally moved more drivers into the left lanes instead of moving slow drivers to the right lane. Fascinating. I wonder why. Perhaps people are generally so confident that they are driving at the right speed, not cluttering the traffic (even when others do think so), they don't consider it a necessity to move over the slower lanes (even when they should). A sign of minimum speed, instead of being a reminder, on the one hand confuses some into thinking it's the maximum speed, and on the other hand, challenges that confidence---surely I'm not so incapable a driver that I can't maintain 60+ mph!

creer 3y ago
This might be the relevant quote: > The police found the minimum speeds to be essentially unenforceable, observing that drivers were passing more on the right, a quarter of all motorists didn't even notice the signs, and 13% of citations issued for minimum speed violations indicated that drivers confused “minimum” for “maximum.” Striking, IMO, that their conclusion was "unenforceable". That might be the main take here: California highway patrol obsesses on some rules and just plain doesn't bother with others. So in practice there is no risk to grabbing a lane - any lane - and acting as if you own it.

kotaKat 3y ago

Meanwhile, modern-day California imposes a 55 mph speed limit on trucks, which helps contribute to traffic jams and delays...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

marssaxman 3y ago

Of course it didn't work; driving speed is primarily a function of road design, not law.

strathmeyer 3y ago

Don't forget 495 around DC, where the left lane is the slow lane for some reason.